Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 12/8

QR/RunFix: Yea I have been trying to keep busy but actually taking it easy. I have some 65/66 half and 216/218 marathon friends that will run about that pace on their easy days. It is nice running with them on those days. But they they throw it down like runfix on workouts haha

@Stone cutter Nice week! According to Mcmillan you could lower your marathon time quite a bit with that 5k PR. I think it gives over optimistic projections over marathon distance but if that 5k PR is old sub 2:45 would be very tempting.

@cmm268 Congrats on the marathon, it's funny that you registered planning not to go all out but still came only one minute slower than the other 2 races.

@runnersfix great week, as always

@np1112 good luck for your race!

@garbage disposal Congrats on the win, sorry you didn't hit your goal. Side stitches sucks, I have noticed they tend to creep on my on downhills much more frequently then on flat surface.

Week 7/8 goal 37:30 10k

m - 8 (8:00)

t - 8 (7:57)

w - 8 (8:08)

t - 7 (8:16)

f - 8 (3x2mi @ 10k w 2 min rest)

1.25mi (7:29) STITCH, long rest

2mi (11:55) 2 min rest

1:75mi (10:26) STITCH (if not for the stitch I could have hold pace for the remaining .25 but it was cutting my breath)

s - 7 (8:14)

s - 12 (7:48)

Tot 58 (I moved last week's Sunday run on Monday, so there's an extra run in the week ;))

Really tired after the 18 miler I did last Friday. I was really fatigued, slow and feeling crappy until this Friday. Also the tendon on the side of my left ankle started acting up a bit. Moral of the story, the long run for me need to be proportioned with my weekly mileage. I'm sure it gave me a great stimulus but it doesn't make sense if I'm trashed for the next 4/5 days.

The 10k workout went ok, I had some stitch problems but I got a sense of the pace I should hold. I think 6:00 pace is what I should shoot for, also because this is my first 10k and I'm not sure how should I feel at the different stages. After this I'm going to give myself another 8 week cycle and race another 10k in mid February, so hopefully with a bit more experience on the distance I can bring it below 37.

Hope everyone had a great week!

First non depressing week since the race in October. Highlights of the last 3 weeks include a disappointing 5k race in 18:16 (almost 30 seconds slower than my pr) and a few weeks of crappy middle of the road slogging.

Goal - 2:5x:xx marathon sometime this spring

Next race - Probably the soldier Field 10 miler, hopefully in around 60 minutes.

Monday - 7 @ 7:52

Tuesday - 7 miles inc 3 miles @ tempo.

WU 2 around 7:50

Tempo in 18:21

Miles in 6:12, 6:08, 6:02. Felt comfortable.

CD 2 around 7. Total mile average for workout was 6:55, so pretty zippy.

Wednesday - 6 miles @ 7:40

Thursday - 10 miles w/ MP progression, mile avg 7:36

Friday - 6 miles @ 7:40

Saturday - AM 4 miles 7:51, PM 6 miles @ 7:39

Sunday - 14 miles @ 7:37. end of the run HURT. It was cold, snowy, and I was fighting an 11 MPH cross/headwind for the whole thing.

Weekly total 60. I felt the fact that I have been running in the 40-50 MPW range - Suddenly jumping back up to a relatively large amount of volume was probably not a great idea, I'm really feeling it.

Unrelated to this week, I am thinking of doing a quasi- pfitz thing for my next 'thon. My current plan is to alternate doing a "classic" T pace tempo and a longer MP tempo week to week. I plan to progress as such.

Classic tempo - 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7

MP tempo - 12 w 6 tempo, 13/7, 14/8, 15/9, 16/10, 17/11, 18/12, 19/13, 20/14.

I'll go week to week doing T pace and M pace.

Other than that I will do 2 weekly long runs.

Runnersfix - though I am nowhere near as fast as you, I also run my easy/recovery runs much slower than my friends who are of similar ability. My feeling is, you don't win awards for running fast on easy days, that's for sure. And nice triple digit week for you. I am eagerly anticipating your next couple of weeks. :)

Ramanujan - those are two tough workouts you got in this week. How long was your Thursday tempo run? You will see me implement some of those in this cycle alternating roughly HM/MP for 5mi+. As qrkid referenced, I think it is Mark Hadley who termed the phrase "wave run" which is what I call them as well.

TheGarbageDisposal - you gave it a go and it just wasn't there. That's okay. You still have to be thrilled with where you are at, and where you are on track to be for Boston in April and for later next year. As far as the big picture, you are right on track. Congrats on the win, by the way. :)

np1112 - a buddy of mine has done a couple of ultra events, including running 116mi+ in 24 hours! According to him, you just want to make sure you really fuel up on carbs as much as you comfortably can this week and get in just enough running to keep your legs feeling good. You'll want to have as much energy as possible come Saturday! Good luck, man - remember to smile and have fun out there every 10k or so, haha! :)

pewow - good luck with your finals! I am sure you can't wait to get those out of the way.

cmm268 - I was registered to do the full at New Jersey several years ago and it turned out to be 80 degrees on race day and I stepped off the course halfway back when it was a two loop course. Part of the reason for me not committing to a race now is having that freedom to find a forecast suited to my liking. High temps and/or high winds are the two big factors for certain courses in our area in the spring.

qrkid - wow, you were really cruising on those cruise mile intervals. And the rest of the week looked good overall.

xenonscreams - best of luck on Saturday! Take no prisoners! :)

Perkunas - enjoy the skiing! We got our first decent amount of snow (~8") in NJ this morning. Hopefully I don't do any unintentional skiing on the roads this week. :)

Slartzio - it's funny, my coach told me I should target 2:45 for this cycle also, but I didn't feel I was ready to take that leap. I guess we'll see how things unfold as I go along. Mentally, it is easier for me to fathom 2:48ish right now, given my current marathon PR. Plus I have a female training partner that will be shooting for the Women's Trials Standard (2:43) in Philly next November, so there will be a few of us (myself included) that are going to take her as far into the race at that pace as possible, hopefully to the finish in my case.

I think 6:00/mi pace is a perfect goal for your upcoming 10k. Like you said, depending on how you run, you can then target a more aggressive goal time for the next one.

King hobbyjogger - welcome back, dude! Based on your most recent week, you are starting things pretty "zippy" on your way to that sub-3:00 goal. I like how you are experimenting with your Pfitz training by trying to personalize it. That's kind of what I am doing with the Hansons program for this cycle. It will be interesting to see how our personalized modifications work - you can be my guinea pig for a future cycle and I will be yours, haha. :)

Race: Cal International marathon. Today!

Goal time: 2:43 HAHAHA! Crash and burn

Monday: 5 miles. 6:39 average. Last 2 6:15, 5:57

Tuesday: 4 miles. 7:15 average.

Wednesday: 5 miles. 6:55 average.

Thursday: off

Friday: off

Saturday: 2 mile jog

Sunday: 2:50:30. Watch 2:48:48.

6:47, 6:42, 6:22, 6:23, 6:12,

6:13, 6:17, 6:24, 6:14, 6:06

6:12, 6:11, 6:07, 6:13, 6:05

6:04, 6:01, 6:16, 6:16, 6:20

6:30, 6:38, 6:46, 6:54, 6:48

7:07, 2:28 for .36

=2:48:48 on my watch

=2:50:30 on race clock at finish *splits as much as +5 seconds off if guess. Depending on the mile.

Total: 44

Race report: somehow my chip didn't register. I'm hoping I'm added in to the results which is a bummer. Missed the start which buried me in the pack. Just worked my way up and finally started running well at mile 3. Everyone had to run in the cold conditions. (25-27 at start. Maybe 35 at the finish.) But it rocked me a bit. My feet were frozen from mile 12 on. Overall, I'm very happy with how I did and will be looking for a warmer marathon in the late spring. I know I can go much faster and learned a lot during this marathon cycle.

Next Race - 10k XC Club Nationals 12/14

M – 9

T – 11 - Threshold workout

W – 7

T – 11 - Mixed workout

F – Off (planned)

S – 11 - Mixed workout

S – 13 in the snow! @ 6:24 pace

Total Mileage – 62

Tuesday's threshold workout:

2 mile warm-up/2 mile cool down

3 x 3200m with 400m active recovery (~1:56) - 10:23, 10:18, 10:15

Thursday's mixed workout:

3 mile warm-up/3.5 mile cool down

4 x 200m with 200m active recovery (~1:07) - 32, 32, 31, 31

3 x 1000m with 400m active recovery (~2:08) - 2:57, 2:57, 2:58

2 x 400m with 400m active recovery (~2:13) - 64, 62

Saturday's mixed workout:

2 mile warm-up/1.5 mile cool down

4 x 1000m with 600m active recovery (~2:41) - 3:08, 3:13, 3:13, 3:12

6 x 200m with 200m active recovery (~1:07) - 32, 32, 32, 32, 31, 31

2 mile acceleration run - 11:28 (started at 1:40/400m and worked my way down to 1:11/400m)

my week:

goals (in order): 15:0x, 31:5x, 4:0x. for spring track

M 5, 6:35 got a cold.

T 10, 6:53

W 8, 6:38

Th 9, 7:27

F 8, 6:49 w/3x800 in 2:41, 2:38, 2:35 mega failure.

Sa 6, 7:03

Su 8, 6:38 w/1.7mi @4:58 downhill, a strava course record.

total 53 @6:52

got a cold last weekend when i went home, and i still have it today.

friday workout: tried to do 6x800 at 2:33 to practice pacing a 16 flat 5k. dunno what went wrong, just couldnt run fast. out of shape already? could be, maybe it was too cold, maybe i had a bad day.

todays run: ran hard on a downhill (-1.5% grade, trail) for a course record. it was tough but not too hard. i need to get rid of this cold i have, it's holding me back.

finals start tomorrow so i have no running plans for next week. i'll just run if i have time

King Hobby I like those MP tempo's you plan on doing. Saw a cool quote from Renato Canova (in normal arguments about volume VS quality in training). He said it is not about increasing volume or about increasing quality over one another but more about increasing the volume of quality. What you have laid out for those MP runs progressively does that.

Portland Not sure I would call that a crash and burn. Not quite what you wanted, but a solid go of it in not ideal conditions. Congrats.

NJ Truth Good luck in Bend. Take some gloves and tights. Actually you might need some climbing crampons as well.

ReedFeel better, study hard, and get back going after finals.

Nj Truth: Nice 3x2mile workout. Negative split! A type of workout I would do. I also like your speed sessions. I bet it really helps for what you're training for. I havent done anything shorter than a mile repeat for the longest time. I have a few buddies running club nats as well. Heard the conditions aren't going to be in anyone's favor.

Slartzio wrote:

Week 7/8 goal 37:30 10k

1.25mi (7:29) STITCH, long rest

2mi (11:55) 2 min rest

1:75mi (10:26) STITCH (if not for the stitch I could have hold pace for the remaining .25 but it was cutting my breath)

@Slartzio you look great for a 37:30 off of your training. Just make sure you're rested!

Trying to bump this thread, I couldn't find it. TheGarbageDisposal found it in the search function. Comments are coming soon, LRC should have an edit option.

Stone Cutter- I think there's a glitch on the boards so I can't see the first post of the thread and details of your week. (other than CMM stating you were over 70 miles, so congrats on getting in more volume while feeling good!) I'll try to comment more later if I can see the details.

CMM268- That race sounded awesome! (both your finish as well as the post-race buffet). I'll definitely keep it in mind when I get around to Delaware on my list. Also, to add to Stone's comment on your multiple-marathoning exploits... you also had a 2:43 from Boston this year! (so that's 4 marathons in the 2:41-2:43 range I am aware of). Maybe next year you can get a string of sub-2:40s!

Runnersfix- Awesome week, I see you're ramping up the miles a bit too to go along with your usual blazing workouts. Sorry I won't be joining you in January but I'll be rooting for ya at the start.

Ramanujan- Very nice workout on Tuesday. How many of the alternating 800s did you end up running on Thursday?

NP1112- That structure for the last week is very similar to my last week, except I doubled for the first 2 days and went slightly longer. (but my race was also Sunday and yours is Saturday). It looks fine to me, but obviously do what feels right for you and don't be afraid to take a day off Wednesday or Thursday if you feel you need it. I have seen ultra guys take a couple of days off in the week leading up to the race, maybe because they feel the rest if more important than staying loose. (I mean you'll have a few hours to loosen up on race day... )

pewow- Looks like you are doing a good job of sticking to your plan and slowly working back into it. Good luck with your finals!

CMM268 / NP112 / Stone round 2Thanks for the words of encouragement guys. I like to think I am experienced enough now to know to take a step back and look at my training from difference perspectives as well. If 2 months ago you told me I would be in PR shape I would've laughed. That was always the goal but just really hard to actually buy into when I was running 17:xx 5Ks. I think the goal now is to just get into a routine of more structured workouts, weights, core, and anything else that I think would help me stay healthy and build up on the fitness level I am at right now. I think it'll be awesome for all of us (as well as the rest of the Boston crew) to run PRs next April. (I think last year our success ratio was more like 3 / 15)

Qrkid- Thanks, and nice week yourself. You've also been building up nicely over the last few weeks. Do you have any small tune-up races coming up just to see where you're at?

Xenoscreams- Looks like you got in yet another week of solid training before the big race. Good luck this weekend!

Perkunas- I've always read that skiing is a great way to stay in shape during the winter. Really interested in seeing how your fitness improves over the next few months with that being your primary activity. Keep us posted.

Slartzio- Thanks, and also for the comment on downhill running = side stitches, I did some more research into this and it turns out to be a common phenomenon. I'll have to work on this if I plan to do one of these things again. Nice workout this Friday and good to see you not overdo it with the stitch and make it worse.

King Hobbyjogger- welcome back and good to see you getting back into it. Those planned tempos/MP sessions look solid as well.

Portland- Sucks that you missed the start, but if I did the math right you were right around 83-minutes at the half? I know you slowed down a bit at the end but a 2-min positive split isn't actually a bad day even if you did miss your goal by a few minutes.

NJ Truth- You're just crushing all your sessions lately buddy. Can't wait to see you tear it up this weekend. Good luck!

Reed- Don't worry too much about that Friday session, it happens to all of us from time to time. Good luck on your finals this week, probably good to take a mental/physical break from running too if you're not feeling it.

Hey Portland. Sorry your race didn't go as planned. I was out there as well and was probably very close to you at the finish. I think my clock time was 2:50:16. My last 1.2 was a little quicker than yours, so probably ran with you for a while that last mile. I was wearing a blue singlet and had a (much faster) buddy pacing me, trying to pull me along that last stretch. He was breaking the wind for me.

My goal was 2:45, but the wheels started to fall off at 17, way too early. It was definitely cold out there.

I haven't posted on this thread since before Chicago, but have been checking it each week.

What were you wearing, and were you near the guy whose girlfriend was riding along on a bike?

maybe this will bump it back to life.

Garbage No races planned just yet. I will do a little 2k test next week. I am trying to do one every 4 or 5 weeks just to sort of get ideas of where I might be.

Racing is fun though, so maybe I will try and jump in a local 5k one weekend and just see what happens.

Wow, I couldn't find this thread for a while.

cmm268: Wow that's really last minute for a marathon. Nice race.

RunnersFix: Nice week and very nice workout.

Ramanujan: Nice week. When are you planning on racing the 5K?

TheGarbageDisposal: Nice race, nonetheless. At least it gives you something to continue to shoot for next year, something you know you're capable of doing if everything goes right.

Perkunas: Hope you're feeling better after what looks like a brief injury. Good for you for being diligent about it.

The Stone Cutter: Thanks! Tell Jordan Hasay she's going down -evil laugh-

Portland: Sorry you missed your goal but good for you for learning from it and staying positive.

NJ truth: Nice workouts. See you Saturday!

Goal: Spring Marathon sub 3:00

Mon: 0 (unplanned)

Tue: 7 (with 800, 1200, 800, 1200, 1600 with 400 rest)

Wed: 0 (unplanned)

Thur: 8

Friday: 10

Sat: 9

Sun: 0 (REALLY UNPLANNED)

Total: 36

Life got in the way on Wednesday. A freak winter storm stranded me on an icy road for 3 and ½ hours (was a 20 minute trip originally). Helped push a bunch of stuck cars out of the road or up a hill, just went to bed after that.

So this week starts my training for a spring marathon. I scrapped my initial training plan (that I came up with) and now I need to start a new on. I am trying to decide on the Pfitz 70 to 85 plan or the Hansons Advance plan. Any suggestions? I am trying to decide on either the Ocean Drive Marathon in March or the NJ Marathon in April. I am leaning towards the NJ Marathon because there are more tune up races in March that could help get me ready for an April race. I need to get the marathon in before May because my wife is due with twin on May 20th. She is high risk to begin with, so there is no guarantee she will make it May, but we are crossing our fingers.

Because I have a 4 year old, a wife who works and twins coming May, this marathon will the last big race for me for at least the next year. One kid is hard, 3 is going to blow my mind! So need to really go all in for this marathon. It’s not that my runner days will be behind me forever, but my marathoning history is suspect at best, if this is the last race for a couple years, I want to make it count! So in-between saving every available dollar, and turning my office into a nursery, It will be all running! (hopefully)

CMM – holy crap. You just walked up and had an outstanding race! Congrats

Stone Cutter – It looks like we are on the same schedule, I might end the spring season with Broad Street as well

Runnersfix – nice week, how high are you planning on going with your mileage

The Garbage Disposal – Sorry you didn’t hit your goal, but congrats on the win anyway. It must have been tough to run by yourself for so long.

Xenon and NP1112 – best of luck in your races next week!

Portland –nice job in bad conditions!

Qrkid – I like that Canova idea, quality over just miles, but easier said than done

back up

Perkunas wrote:

Slartzio wrote:

Week 7/8 goal 37:30 10k

1.25mi (7:29) STITCH, long rest

2mi (11:55) 2 min rest

1:75mi (10:26) STITCH (if not for the stitch I could have hold pace for the remaining .25 but it was cutting my breath)

@Slartzio you look great for a 37:30 off of your training. Just make sure you're rested!

thanks!

Posted in last week's thread by mistake, oops...

A rather disappointing end to the season. I was feeling very fit and in sub 2.45 form for the Lanzarote Marathon. Alas, it turned out to be more of a triathlete's love-in with no segregation of half and full marathon runners, nor for predicted times.The upshot of this was a messy start area. I was pushed by one of these disrepectful 'runners' to the rough asphalt (not smooth road) after 50m. No pain, so dusted myself off quickly and caught up with the lead car (the eventual winner ran something like 2.37).

I realised later that my right foot was wet - with blood, as the flesh below my knee had basically been ripped off. So my marathon hopes finished in 33 minutes after 8k in 22ºc heat at 9:30am.I walked back 1k to the aid station, got taken to the medical tent and sent packing. I have since been back in hospital today, been told I should have had stitches yesterday, and have ended up with an infection (so now on antibiotics). Palms of hands and elbows torn to shreds as well. Treated like have never ran a road race before (ran 112, including 38 maras).

Lesson learnt, not to run in non-nationally certified events!

Hope your running is more successful than mine this week, still hoping to knock out 60m or so once I get the ok from my own doctor.Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5512134&page=2#ixzz2n3YxEG00