was ELG actually gay?
i heard rumors about that but i was never sure
was ELG actually gay?
i heard rumors about that but i was never sure
I don't think it's as black and white as you suggest, and I don't think that Canova talks rubbish. He wouldn't be in his position as one of the world's leading coaches if that were the case.
I can see exactly what he is saying in terms of acquiring as many different and effective training sessions and being open to new ways of doing things.
I'm sure Canova does not know himself whether or not some of these athletes doped, and even if he had an inkling, why on earth would he want to share it with a load of strangers on here!?
It's sad when so many on here are prepared to believe that all the greats over the years doped. It harms the sport as much as the dopers themselves. I have my own ideas as to who possibly doped based on a lot of reading and evidence acquired over many years, but I have no proof and could be wrong about some or all of them. If there is no evidence apart from just running fast, then they should be seen as clean.
I hope Renato continues to share his thoughts and excellent insights on here.
The key in all this is the "statue of limitations"
Ok. It's 8 years. Recently, two labs (one in Germany and 1 in Moscow) discovered a new test. (yes, I know that stanozolol and oral turinabol could be the drugs of sprinters and throwers, not runners)
But what if you could retroactively analize the samples of...let's say...Sevilla 1999 WC's 1500m finalists?
So, you can't retroactively ban El G, Ngeny, Estevez, Kaouch, Cacho...but you can MORALLY expose the cheaters. It's like to put an asterisk in a ring. (in this case, in a medal
No EPO testing at all. Do you suspect about Estevez and Cacho? I do.
Operation Puerto exposed the MASSIVE doping in endurance events. The massive existence of "doping doctors". And why don't think that they only did the same that El G, Ngeny, Kaouch, Lagat, Morceli, Komen, etc? Why don't think that THERE WAS A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD?
El G had talent? absolutely. El G had discipline? absolutely? El G did incredible workouts? absolutely.
The black cloud is because in the 90's there was no control for EPO at all. You couldn't even say "there was a precarious testing metod for EPO", because that was not the case.
What about Miguel Indurain? Nobody knew about EPO at his era. Only TdF riders, team officials and doctors. WADA did not exist at the time.
Ben L Wrong wrote:
The key in all this is the "statue of limitations"
Ok. It's 8 years. Recently, two labs (one in Germany and 1 in Moscow) discovered a new test. (yes, I know that stanozolol and oral turinabol could be the drugs of sprinters and throwers, not runners)
But what if you could retroactively analize the samples of...let's say...Sevilla 1999 WC's 1500m finalists?
So, you can't retroactively ban El G, Ngeny, Estevez, Kaouch, Cacho...but you can MORALLY expose the cheaters. It's like to put an asterisk in a ring. (in this case, in a medal
No EPO testing at all. Do you suspect about Estevez and Cacho? I do.
Operation Puerto exposed the MASSIVE doping in endurance events. The massive existence of "doping doctors". And why don't think that they only did the same that El G, Ngeny, Kaouch, Lagat, Morceli, Komen, etc? Why don't think that THERE WAS A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD?
El G had talent? absolutely. El G had discipline? absolutely? El G did incredible workouts? absolutely.
The black cloud is because in the 90's there was no control for EPO at all. You couldn't even say "there was a precarious testing metod for EPO", because that was not the case.
What about Miguel Indurain? Nobody knew about EPO at his era. Only TdF riders, team officials and doctors. WADA did not exist at the time.
You are preaching to the converted when it comes to that period from c. 93 - 04. I think many of the top middle distance guys at the time were taking EPO, for the very reasons you outlined. The point I was trying to make is that Renato likely doesn't know who was doping and it doesn't mean that elites prior to this period and since we're also doping.
I don't think most of the guys in the early 80's were doping, nor Rudisha. I'm not certain about Aouita. I want to believe he was clean because I was a big fan and loved watching him run, but the evidence that came out of Australia a few years back is difficult to ignore.
I love you Sir, but this response surprised me. What if WHAT YOU SAW was helped along by drugs? Drugs are really for training, right? Did the Australia thing happen or was it just fiction?
Renato Canova wrote:
The question was from whom I learnt. My answer is that I learnt something from several athletes and coaches, INCLUDING AOUITA, and I gave the example.
Nothing to do with the fact I respect or not Aouita as person, this is another matter. But is a fact that for the first time I saw some (for me) new type of training, which influenced, later, my training phylosophy.
I don't know why you are not able to read what I write. The fact I describe the workouts of some athletes, THAT I PERSONALLY SAW, can mean that I respect this athlete or this person, or is a CHRONICLE of a fact ?
Stop to see doping everywhere, and especially to connect EVERY word regarding some doped athlete with doping.
I know Aouita well. He is a very difficult person, with the cult of personality, and is for him very difficult to maintain any role.
When he was in Al Jazeera (TV owned by the Emir of Qatar) he spoke very bad about Qatar, and was fired.
When he was Head Coach of Marocco (he was personal friend of the new king), after 3 months he resigned going to the court with an allegation against Maroccan Federation.
But is a fact thet he DID the workout I described, and THE WORKOUT (not the athlete) influenced my training phylosophy.
And what is your background and expertise? Do you speak from direct knowledge and experience?
Rigorous Maximus wrote:
Renato is a joke. ...
Renato said that he saw something new and this influenced his approach to training. (El G did something similar but it wasn't the first time Renato had seen it).If this influence resulted in the clean improvements of Renato's athletes, then whether Aouita took drugs then, or dealt drugs later in Australia, is not really relevant.The independent confirmation comes from Renato's own experience with his athletes.
Certainly Not Skuj wrote:
I love you Sir, but this response surprised me. What if WHAT YOU SAW was helped along by drugs? Drugs are really for training, right? Did the Australia thing happen or was it just fiction?
Maybe it's just me, but I thought everyone was officially clean until they failed a drug test. Why is El G different from everyone else?
well....
chances are el guerrouj was a massive fraud ...
based on circumstantial evidence
some of us got fooled before by the eastern block..forgive me for being a cynic this time around
maybe it's just me wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but I thought everyone was officially clean until they failed a drug test. Why is El G different from everyone else?
That is because you are a fool
P.S. - Marion Jones never failed a drug test
not a fool wrote:
That is because you are a fool
P.S. - Marion Jones never failed a drug test
So then everyone is on drugs?
hmmmm!!!! wrote:
some of us got fooled before by the eastern block..forgive me for being a cynic this time around
Not only we were fooled by the Eastern Bloc. Also by the US.
There was a level playing field...
and then we had the chinese women,
the spanish blood dopers
widespread moroccan doping
and suspected east african doping
US sprinting
Balco
marion jones
lance armstrong
i loved watching el guerrouj at the time ...but hindsight and all that
hell i enjoyed watching kratochvilova and marita koch at the time
and i notice how it's always the 'winners'who turn out to be major dopers
not the fools at the back of the pack that renato would have us believe
the epo worked just fine for tergat and more than likely bekele too so how is it that apparently epo doesn't work for the top guys?
Old Scottie wrote:
Renato
Have you ever thought of setting up your own training web-site where those genuinely interested in exploring your approach to training and racing could engage in an on-line forum exchange that was password protected and allowed respectful dialogue and mutual learning?
This is something that could be easily set up and provide a great resource and legacy for your life's work...
Best
Old Scottie
I second this.
I could set it up, too...
Rigorous Maximus wrote:
And it's not just lying, it's peddling his crxp snake-oil training regimens that is the worst thing, selling this junk as though it actually worked. What a joke.
Peddling? Has Renato ever made a dime from his posts on here? Do you have any conspiracy theories you'd like to share?
Rigorous Maximus wrote:
Anybody who actually believes that Makhloufi was the only really good athlete in an Olympic 1500m final is either a complete moron, or completely deluded.
I believe it and have been saying exactly this since the final happened. He was the only healthy 3:30 guy in the field, with the fastest 800 speed (1:43) to match. A guy like that should be able to destroy Manzano, Iguider, Gebremedhin, etc, and unsurprisingly he did. None of the splits were particularly impressive for an Olympic final.
Unless you think all 3:30 / 1:43 guys are cheaters, which is fine if that's what you really believe, then there's no reason to single out Makhloufi.
Your answer is really funny.
So, when you speak about some person you don't know (not only you don't know personally, but you don't know anything about his activity, his life, his principles... etc), and you use to accuse hiding yourself behind a funny nickname, your values are "honesty, integrity, candor and logic" ?
We need to change this, putting before every your expression of "background and experience", another very simple word : "Lack of...", so for the first time in your life probably you can say something connected with the reality.
Hey Renato, Carlo in Siena says hi.
Like I said, everything you say is, to anybody who knows, just pissing into the wind.
Your life is pretty much the same as that of many others in your line of work--the entertainment business.
Rigorous Maximus wrote:
Hey Renato, Carlo in Siena says hi.
Like I said, everything you say is, to anybody who knows, just pissing into the wind.
Your life is pretty much the same as that of many others in your line of work--the entertainment business.
And... boom goes the dynamite. Renato: rebuttal?
Rigorous Maximus (but if you know Latin, we can change your nickname in Minus Quam), I'm very happy you know in Italy somebody I don't know. But may be you are involved with Carlo in Siena, having as normal activity to piss into the wind.
About my life, fortunately I don't look at any business, and for that reason I can laugh staying very relaxed when I read from stupid liars like you.
Do you know something called "passion" ?
This is my motor, not depending on money or glory, but on the pleasure to do what I like.
Sorry for your unfair "rigor", I think you, suspicious of every thing, must have a very unhappy life.