Down goes the Dow

Joe Beets wrote:

REITs are not stocks. And your other "stock" fund is focused on utilities.

I'm not sure if you're purposely being disingenuous, or are completely clueless.

Joe,

As usual you act like you know something but you are usually wrong. Please read the description on VNQ from the Vanguard website.

I am not sure if you are being cute or you are completely clueless. I assume the later.

Igy

As a former owner of VNQ, I am very familiar with that particular ETF. For your edification, REITs are trusts. They may contain stocks, but they are not themselves stocks (as I said). And they are subject to very different rules than stocks or typical stock mutual funds.

Back to my point. Using a REIT and a utility fund as proxies for the entire stock market is either disingenuous or ignorant. Take your pick. Either way, your posts regarding investing are not to be taken seriously.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

So much for TINA or the belief that stocks can serve as a superior proxy for bond income. VNQ -3.5%, XLU -2.8% compared to TLT -1.5%.

Igy

Joe,

As usual you try to cover your ignorance. Please compare my posts to yours. Then go back and read the description of VNQ or XLU for that matter. VNQ and XLU are used by investors as bond proxies. VNQ and XLU are stocks and trade on the stock exchange. One reason these investments will do very poorly in a rising interest rate environment because like you most investors are ignorant of the facts and how they perform in that environment.

So sorry Mr. Beets.

Igy

Someone who does not know the difference between an ETF and a stock should not be giving investment advice. I certainly hope that the rumors suggesting you are a troll are correct. Otherwise I feel very sorry for your clients.

Joe,

I have 20 years experience as an investment advisor. BS in Business Administration an MA in American Studies. Professional designations of CFP, CHFC, and CLU. I managed over $160 million.

Even if I was stupid, and learned nothing, I could tell you that an ETF stands for Exchange Traded Fund. Like a mutual fund, an ETF can be either a stock fund, a bond fund or some variation of both. All ETF trade on the stock exchange regardless of the underlying investment.

So what is your point?

Igy

I commend you for publicly agreeing with me. I honestly didn't expect that.

As for my point, I made that above and then reiterated it.

Leave it to Chicken Little to cream his pants over a 2% drop.

[quote]Joe Beets wrote:

Someone who does not know the difference between an ETF and a stock should not be giving investment advice.

What is the difference? One is a single stock, the other a bunch of stocks. So effin what?

Big Dog Investments wrote:

The underwhelming jobs report likely means no rate hike this month, so up we go.

Ah ya.....

Surprised to see you agreeing with him.

Ah ya.....

agip wrote:

end of another month - vanguard total stock market index +7.1% YTD incl dividends.

and over 52 weeks +10.3% or thereabouts. Not an exact number, that one.

and for those like coach d who advocated sell in May and go away...VTI is up 5.8% since May 1.

Rock 'n' roll

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

Care to rethink?

I was really talking about Brexit and Fed rate hike in June back then (and remember, we had that buying opportunity in June). BUT I'll still stick with what I said, because the fun might be over yet:

VTI is up a whopping 6.38% in the last TWO years. Broad mutual funds are making nothing over Pimco Total Return and such. Equity buy and holders aren't making shit.

coach d,

Hope you are well.

On May 21, 2015 the S&P 500 closed at 2,134. All of the gain since then has been on the back of multiple expansion. Can it continue? That depends on whether the institutions can continue to churn the market. We closed Friday at 2,127. I am not sure currently the performance of SPY versus TLT, but recently TLT had a 100% outperformance.

Strangest markets in my 20 years in the business. Where do we go short term? Flip a coin. Long term, hard to imagine a benign ending.

Igy

Long term the markets will be up. That is unless you believe this time is different. 😄

coach d wrote:

agip wrote:

end of another month - vanguard total stock market index +7.1% YTD incl dividends.

and over 52 weeks +10.3% or thereabouts. Not an exact number, that one.

and for those like coach d who advocated sell in May and go away...VTI is up 5.8% since May 1.

Rock 'n' roll

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

Care to rethink?

I was really talking about Brexit and Fed rate hike in June back then (and remember, we had that buying opportunity in June). BUT I'll still stick with what I said, because the fun might be over yet:

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/10/one-of-streets-most-accurate-forecasters-calls-for-stock-sell-off-to-deepen.html

VTI is up a whopping 6.38% in the last TWO years. Broad mutual funds are making nothing over Pimco Total Return and such. Equity buy and holders aren't making shit.

now VTI is up 3.9% since May 1. Still very good - that's around 1 percent per month. I'll take that.

As for buy and hold not making money - you've got to be kidding. The past few years have been solid - pretty much to historical norms. I'm sure you made 1,456% or some such number, but I'll take these:

VTI annualized returns

1 year: 10.9%

3 years: 10.1%

5: 15.3%

10: 7.7%

15: 7.4%

and of course those last two numbers include a once in a generation financial crisis.

if that is not making shit, I'll take some more, please.

Econ,Agreed, but doing nothing is not optimal portfolio management. Blindly holding positions expecting time to smooth results will work if your investment horizon is long enough. Igy

Econ 101 wrote:

Long term the markets will be up. That is unless you believe this time is different. 😄

"and of course those last two numbers include a once in a generation financial crisis."

Hilarious.

Two massive stock meltdowns in a five to eight year year period beginning with the start of the new millenium..... and you think that it will not happen again anytime soon because 2008 to 2009 was a once in a generation event?

The next shoe that falls will make 2008 look like a minor blip. The capitalists are cannabilizing themselves with their unrestrained greed and complete lack of humanity.

Certainly the Federal Reserve bears responsibility for creating three asset bubbles in the last twenty years. Today other central banks have adopted more extreme measures that have done little in real economic terms. A cycle where virtually every asset class has been inflated on a mountain of rising debt amid slower global growth. Not good.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Econ,

Agreed, but doing nothing is not optimal portfolio management. Blindly holding positions expecting time to smooth results will work if your investment horizon is long enough.

Igy

Econ 101 wrote:

Long term the markets will be up. That is unless you believe this time is different. 😄

Actually history tells us that doing nothing IS optimal portfolio management. Perhaps you really do believe that this time is different. 😳