Here is a link to an interesting video about the '76 Olympic 5K in Montreal, won by defending champion Lasse Viren of Finland. The African countries boycotted the Olympics in 1976 because New Zealand, which had sporting links to South Africa, was included in the Games. Apartheid was still the system in place in South Africa at the time. Do you think Pre would have won a medal in that race had he still been around?
I obviously meant do you think he would have been able to medal in that race had he still been alive and fit?
Maybe if he'd moved to the 10,000. I don't think he could have done it at the 5,000. Quax and Dixon both had faster 5,000 and mile times than he did so it's unlikely he could have run away from them at the front or have outkicked them. And as Dixon couldn't beat Hidebrandt and none of them could beat Viren it seems unlikely that he'd have gotten a medal. But you never know.
HRE is correct. The 5k was stacked with kickers - tougher than '72. Pre would have been eaten on the last lap. Maybe 5th at best. The 10k was weaker (except for Viren who was gold whatever). Foster had an off day with bug, so we could fantasize about a Lopez/Pre shootout for silver. Two similar animals. That would have been one for the ages.......
It's 2013. Do you know where your 21st century runners are?
It's 2013. Do you know where your 21st century runners are?
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Sure, but I figured that some of the older posters might enjoy that video and to speculate how Pre would have faired in that race had he been around. I've seen his name mentioned surprisingly often on this message board.
This 5k is actually one of the most intriguing races of all time. How did a 'slowpoke' like Viren beat the kickers lined up on his shoulder? I was 18 at the time and we endlessly debated it. Bruce Kidd said it best: "He mesmerized the race like a rattlesnake..."
My own theory is that Viren was actually much faster at 800 than he made out to be.
Darkhelmet wrote:
This 5k is actually one of the most intriguing races of all time. How did a 'slowpoke' like Viren beat the kickers lined up on his shoulder? I was 18 at the time and we endlessly debated it. Bruce Kidd said it best: "He mesmerized the race like a rattlesnake..."
My own theory is that Viren was actually much faster at 800 than he made out to be.
I'm still waiting for Quax and Dixon to catch him as I thought they'd do with 200m left in the race. Viren ran an expertly times increase the pace gradually over the last 600m finish.
First of all, I question if that is right. I have Prefontaine Mile PB at 3:54 and change. Quax was 3:56 as of 76'. That is just from a google search. Quax had a little better 1500M PB than Pre but not by much. Secondly, Shorter said in an interview that he thought Prefontaine had more speed than people give him credit for and should have had more faith in it in championship races. That said, it was an impressively fast final lap in that 5000M race for that era. Bottom line. I do think Pre would have run a much smarter race than in 72'. Basically no wild surges and he would have had a lot in the tank in the final lap. I think he would have been in the mix with that Top 4 or 5 group but realistically would not have beaten Viren. Which is to say that it would have been a close shave between silver and no medal at all.
HRE wrote:
Maybe if he'd moved to the 10,000. I don't think he could have done it at the 5,000. Quax and Dixon both had faster 5,000 and mile times than he did so it's unlikely he could have run away from them at the front or have outkicked them. And as Dixon couldn't beat Hidebrandt and none of them could beat Viren it seems unlikely that he'd have gotten a medal. But you never know.
If he Lydiardized his training he would have won, even vs. Viren. The Oregon system did not give him enough volume, miles at aerobic pace.
Pheidippides died in 490 BC at age 40. Would he have medaled in the 2004 Olympic marathon?
Although he wasn't thrilled with the 10k, Pre was finding out that he was much better suited to it than the 5k around when he died. Most likely he would have moved up in 1976 and/or 1980 (assuming no boycott, now living in total fantasyland). Although, I wouldn't rule out his chances for a medal in the 5k either.....as everyone knows he could have had one in 1972 at age 21 had he changed tactics a bit, particularly that last desperate push completely took everything out of him.
Better question wrote:
Pheidippides died in 490 BC at age 40. Would he have medaled in the 2004 Olympic marathon?
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Doubt it. Best drugged runners are Kenyan, Epo-thians. Best undrugged are Irish, British, American. Pedie was a Greek chap.
Did Prefontaine ever beat Dixon?
HRE wrote:
Maybe if he'd moved to the 10,000. I don't think he could have done it at the 5,000. Quax and Dixon both had faster 5,000 and mile times than he did so it's unlikely he could have run away from them at the front or have outkicked them. And as Dixon couldn't beat Hidebrandt and none of them could beat Viren it seems unlikely that he'd have gotten a medal. But you never know.
frank shorter got beat by an imposter
Wow, I must say I'm so impressed with this thread. This is the first time, ever, that I've heard people speculate if Prefontaine would have won the 5k in Montreal against Viren. This is such a clever think piece and to imagine, no one has ever contemplated this topic ever. It's not like people have talked about this exact thread so many times that it's a pointless discussion or anything. To the writer of this thread I give my utmost gratitude for expanding the breath of academic discussion about track and field. Bravo my dear friend bravo!!
68790&*((& wrote:
If he Lydiardized his training he would have won, even vs. Viren. The Oregon system did not give him enough volume, miles at aerobic pace.
^^^^^^^ This. Viren was so good because Lydiard had spent a lot of time in Finland and the Finn adopted his techniques. Pre was a great runner but was beaten by a better training system.
Of course Viren downplayed his speed. And that was an era without pacesetters. Viren was probably a 13:10/ 27:15 guy under today's conditions.
Prefontaine would have run the 10000m in 1976; he had run solo a world leading time in his first try at 10000m, much like Solinsky did years later. 10000m was his best event, not the 5000m.
Pre would have won gold!
Wow, I must say I'm so impressed with this thread. This is the first time, ever, that I've heard people speculate if Prefontaine would have won the 5k in Montreal against Viren. This is such a clever think piece and to imagine, no one has ever contemplated this topic ever. It's not like people have talked about this exact thread so many times that it's a pointless discussion or anything. To the writer of this thread I give my utmost gratitude for expanding the breath of academic discussion about track and field. Bravo my dear friend bravo!!
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Some of us are new to this message board and not aware of all past threads. If you are bored with the subject then why did you bother clicking on the post? Your time would have obviously been better spent creating an enlightening new thread to expand the "breath" of academic discussion.