Why we're all not running 2:22?

I work 45 hpw. I have 2 kids and a wife. I was my daughter's soccer coach. I cook dinner every other night. I go to my kids functions. I play with my kids, read bed time stories, etc, etc. I find a way to get up to 140 mpw training. I ran 2:22 on Sunday. It can't be done. Depends on your commitment level, I guess. Some have that lives that get in the way, others use it as an excuse (I am NOT saying that is what you are doing). I get up early and I don't have that much TV time, but I get it all done.

Hell, I could run 2:04 if I did nothing but run, eat, and sleep.

Miles and Miles......

congrats on the 2:22. with all of your commitments, and even without, that is a phenomenal accomplishment. i have more admiration for you than words can say. i'd love to see your day by day schedule. breakout of mileage, how much do you sleep, family commitments? thanks......sehon40

sehon40,

I agree with your post.

I would like to add that in my opinion this is also the reason for less and less competition at local road races. College guys who were 33 minutes in cross don't really the have the committment to both train and put in long hours at the office. They often end up not training seriously for extended periods - the result is they become 36 minute 10k guys.

Is there a solution to this? I don't know of one. Does it hurt the sport? I believe so. For instance, when I was in high school I was trying to be like the local studs who were running 30-31 minutes. Seeing those guys race made me train hard. This might have been different if the local "studs" were running 36 minutes.

I do think the American masters records will be rewritten in the next 10-15 years, no offense to Eddy H. who reads these boards. Some of these guys will get the time later in life, and the desire will still be burning strong.

Move out of the US, where capitalism isn't so cut-throat, where holidays last longer, and the work week is shorter.

So which is it?

Are Americans shitty runners because they are too lazy?

or

Are Americans shitty runners because they work too hard?

:-?

I don't have my life broken out by the hour, but here is what I did the 15 weeks before CIM:

Week of, mileage, key workouts

8/26, 100, Tue 16x400 (71 avg), Thu 10 Fartlek

9/2, 123, Tue bombed workout ran easy, Thu 8 Tempo (5:20 avg), Sun 24 with middle 14 MP

9/9, 131, Tue 10 Med (5:56 avg), Thu 400(71),800(2:28),1200(3:44),Mile(5:00),1200(3:45),800(2:31),400(68), Sat 4.2M XC Race

9/16, 141, Tue 8x800 (2:26 avg), Thu 10 Fartlek, Sat 8K XC Race

9/23, 70, Tue 8 Tempo (5:32 avg), Thu 10 Fartlek, Sun 10K Road Race (31:36, PR)

9/30, 129, Tue bad track workout very windy ended up doing 200s, Thu 10 Fartlek, Sun Half Marathon Race/workout 1:10:17

10/7, 90, Thu 4xMile (5:01 avg), Sun 18 Easy

10/14, 71, Tue 10 Tempo (5:14 avg), Thu 8 Fartlek, Sun Half Marathon Race (1:08:38, PR)

10/21, 100, all easy stomach flu/race recovery

10/28, 91, Tue 3x2Mile (10:13 avg), Thu 8xHill 400, Sun 18 MP mile here and there (5:51 avg)

11/4, 81, Tue 10 Fartlek, Thu 10 Med (5:59 avg), Sun 30K race (1:41:26, PR)

11/11, 95, Wed 12 Med (5:50 avg), Thu 14 easy/med (6:07 avg), Sat 20 (6:17 avg), Sun 20 Easy

11/18, 82, Tue 16x400 (70 avg), Thu 10 Fartlek, Sun 6M XC Race

11/25, 60, Tue 8 Med (5:50 avg), Thu 5K race (15:31, yuck), Sat 12 Easy

12/2, 64, Tue 8 Fartlek, Thu 6 easy/med, Sunday CIM 2:22

As far as the rest of my life. I take turns with my wife on many things. For example the evening after CIM I gave both my kids baths. I play with them, read bedtime stories, cook dinner, etc. Sleep patterns, well when I am doing double days I have to get up at 4:45 AM, I usually go to bed by 10PM. With no morning runs I get up at either 5AM or 6AM and work 6AM or 7AM (depends on workload) to 3:45PM. I run when I get home 4PM. Then fix dinner or play with kids until 6PM. Eat, bathe kids, then read story, they are in bed by 8PM, then relax until 10PM.

Miles and Miles,

Thanks for the info... Training logs can serve as a great motivator. Do you do any stretching, strengthening or anything else that assists your running?

Thanks,

DougC

You could get a government job. I only work 37.5 hours/week, which leaves plenty of time to train (in a previous, less injury filled life, I was a decent triathlete). I make a good living, have a nice house, 2 cars, etc. No wife or kids. Some student loans but not too much debt. I'm 31.

I think it's tough to find a job in corporate america where you don't work that 55-60 hours/week, at least this is what my friends tell me.

It's all about priorities. Everyone wants things NOW! People live at such a fast pace..."I'm outta college, I better get married NOW", or "I'm 25, I need to have kids NOW", or "I'm 28, I gotta buy a house NOW!"

If you're willing to be practical, you can work less, live on less and train more. It's up to you.

Not knocking you miles and miles, but when you work on average 6:30 to 3:45, which is a 9 hour day, baiscally, its not hard at all to run 100+ miles a week. It also makes things easier when you're home before its pitch black outside. Not to take away from what you've done, and not to make excuses because I have chosen my life and I LOVE it, but try working from 8 AM - 10/11 PM on average and fit in the miles. I'll tell you right now... its near impossible.

You can run to work... 4 miles... 5 days a week... but inevitably the lack of sleep will wear you down.

Certainly working so many hours no one will say anything if you leave at 4 to go for a run for an hour, but that hour turns into 2 by the time you change and shower and stretch, etc. That is another 2 hours you have to stay at work... so now we're talking past midnight every night... 5 hours of sleep at a time if you're lucky, all to run what, 13 miles a day and be exhausted, run down, sick, non-productive at everything you do, etc.

40,50 hours a week... doable.

70-80... not doable.

M

but try working from 8 AM - 10/11 PM on average and fit in the miles. I'll tell you right now... its near impossible.

Miles and Miles admitted he only works 45hrs per week. He did not say he could train the same way if he worked the schedule mentioned above. That schedule would amount to ~14 hours per day or 70 hours per week. He was just trying to explain how he fits it all in based on his 45hr work week. Regarding the dark, he runs his AM run at 4:45AM... I'll bet it's pretty dark then.

Like you said it is all about choices. I choose to live within 10 minutes of my work (that helps). I choose to have a job with this schedule. I chose to have kids at an early age. I choose to get up early and run in the dark (yes it is dark when I run too). I choose to run EVERYDAY, rain, shine, fatigued, sick, etc. You just have to find out what works for you.

To answer the other post, no I don't do any strengthening. I used to when I was a sprinter. I stretch about every other night in front of the TV.

Agreed, but one point: you say you (single) have 2 cars. Frankly, the difference between now and "back in the day" is the amount of consumer crap we've been programmed to "need," even if we're living modestly. Is it the consumer culture which makes us soft, or simply that pursuing it wastes much of our time and energy?

Conto wrote:

try working from 8 AM - 10/11 PM on average and fit in the miles. I'll tell you right now... its near impossible.

In this case, you have chosen the almighty $dollar$, the corporate ladder (to nowhere), or something else as being far more important than running.

karl marx wrote:

Agreed, but one point: you say you (single) have 2 cars. Frankly, the difference between now and "back in the day" is the amount of consumer crap we've been programmed to "need," even if we're living modestly. Is it the consumer culture which makes us soft, or simply that pursuing it wastes much of our time and energy?

Yes. Both. Read the autobiography of Bill Rodgers or Frank Shorter or Ron Daws and you'll see that we seem to "need" more stuff than earlier generations. A lot of the good runners delayed the "real world" and were serious about running after college. I think we lose a lot of talent right out of college. Guys/Gals just stop running seriously, don't hook up with a training group, etc.

Sehon, this is a great discussion about the sacrifices needed to be successful. This is stuff that we've all dealt with before. In college, we had to choose between running and fraternity rush, chasing women, etc. I guess the corporate world is not much different. If I were in your shoes I would definitely find a 40 hr/week job and start pointing to that 2:22. A decade ago I ran my best races, and it was the proudest time of my life. I look at all these second rate runners you mention, and feel sad that there's a whole world that they don't even know about. I've always felt that academics and making money weren't that impressive to me because anyone can do it. That's not so with running. It takes a special talent and a special passion.

Also, the thrill of setting a good PR lasts an incredibly long time. I still get a kick out of hearing peoples' reaction when they learn I've run a 4:17 mile, or a 31:30 10k(average by this board's standards).

I've been there. It's worth it. Go for it.

karl marx wrote:

Agreed, but one point: you say you (single) have 2 cars. Frankly, the difference between now and "back in the day" is the amount of consumer crap we've been programmed to "need," even if we're living modestly. Is it the consumer culture which makes us soft, or simply that pursuing it wastes much of our time and energy?

I don't have the answer to your question. In my case, I simply happen to have two vehicles. I've only owned 3 cars in the last 15 years, and still own two of them. When I bought the last one, the trade-in wasn't a good deal so I hung on to what I had. It wasn't specifically to have both, just didn't feel like losing money that day. I'd sell it if the right offer came along, but it's nice to have a backup. Still, I didn't "work harder" to do that (I never had more than one payment). Current car is a Hyundai Elantra, under $200/month payment, cheap no-frills transportation.

believe me, www.federaljobsearch.com has been getting a lot of hits on my computer lately. at this point i'm just grateful that i found a job that got me out of debt quickly and that i'm young enough to still capture the best years of my running life if i so choose. certainly i can achieve my best while working a job, but climbing the ladder i'm on right now for 55 - 60 hours a week is not going to allow me to achieve my best. i know this and am wrestling with what to do. at least i'll know in february what i can run in the marathon while climbing this ladder.

I think that everything has already been pointed out quite well by other posters; mainly, the drive for consumer goods, etc has diminished the desire to get good at something that doesn't pay (monetarily).

I got a financial question for you--why did you pay off your student loans so early? In most cases I know financial advisors, etc say that student loan debt is good to have, as it's at a relatively low interest rate and regular payments help build credit.

I owe about 17 grand and I consolidated my loans in a system where the required payment amount is lower for 4 years (at somewhere around 50-60 dollars per month) and then goes up to about 150 or so per month for the rest of the payment time. This will allow me time to work on improving running as well as grad school.

I'm sorry you've chosen to work for some business that's getting rich from you busting your hump. It's true that business moves much quicker now and companies expect more "productivity" (in other words, they pay you less to do more). If you don't like it, you can always change.

Interesting thread, and DougC proves true to form (meant as a compliment) by being focused in on training schedules.

I didn't read all the responses here, but here's my take on it:

I SIMPLY DON'T WANT TO PUT IN THE TIME TO RUN 2:22.

No offense to those that do, and I love running as much as most of you do, but I love other things too.

Here are my reasons:

1) Based on my times at other distances and based on some not so good marathons, it is conceivable that if I really threw everything into training for a marathon for a couple of years (I'm starting to fight age now though), everything went smoothly, I remained injury free and had a good day that I might actually run close to 2:22. That would be a stretch for me though. A more realistic ceiling of my ability would be about 2:26 or so, but I guess unless you really try you really never know. Assuming I did put all that effort into it and ran 2:22, what would it get me? Money? NO. Fame? NO. Better health? NO. A spot on the Olympic team? NO. Personal accomplishment? YES. But that is not enough.

2) Like others have said, I too have kids. I enjoy spending time with them and watching them discover new things.

3) I enjoy spending time with my wife who is not a marathon runner.

4) If I were to train 120+ MPW (I did this before we had kids) and focus for a couple years on marathon training, the other things in my life would suffer. Either I would not be as productive at work, or I would not get as much sleep (pretty much I require 7 1-2-8 1/2 hours each night), or I would not get to see the kids as often, or I would not get to see my wife as often (which means less sex, and runing 120+ ain't worth that), or I wouldn't get to watch the ocassional football game or play my musical instruments or, or, or...

For me, that's why.