Some are high mileage some are low. Heard of McMillian's "Endurance Monsters / Speed Demons"? That's simplifying it but check out Vigil's book, goes into muscle fibers and all kinds of cool stuff you are failing to understand.
Some are high mileage some are low. Heard of McMillian's "Endurance Monsters / Speed Demons"? That's simplifying it but check out Vigil's book, goes into muscle fibers and all kinds of cool stuff you are failing to understand.
Is it true she runs 3 mile tempos near 5 flat? Saw it on her twitter. Whats the point of this workout? for 800 athlete
If that is true then she is running more mileage than Diego Estrada who has the same coach and is around 50-60mpw. Goes to show how athletes can be so different.
boi wonder wrote:
Is it true she runs 3 mile tempos near 5 flat? Saw it on her twitter. Whats the point of this workout? for 800 athlete[/quote]
i ran on a d3 team that had 5 guys running 1:49-1:53 at one point (one guy could run 47 open 400, another was AA in the 400H). they did 12-20min "tempo" runs weekly. the pure 400/800 guys dreaded them (more so than 800/1500 guys) and would often puke their guts out on ones they really pushed.
"tempo" is in quotes b/c these workouts were often faster than a true threshold run if you go by the definition of "tempo = pace you could run for an hour". whatever the pace, it was 12-20min of pure discomfort for these guys.
all 5 did XC in the fall as well, peak 50-60 mpw for the pure 800 guys, 70-90 for the 800/1500 guys.
the brojos say it all the time, strength = speed. even in the 800. tempo runs build that strength yo.
yyy wrote:
as far as I know, they don't 70mpw is medium mileage for an 80071500m runner.
Nice miss-hit of the shift button.
Coach is building her strength knowing the rounds will be tough and un predictable to get to the final. The final is another story , tag...
up all nights wrote:
I think it might be more this than just mileage.
Speed endurance 8 x 1k in 3 min & fast 400.
Coach Vigil knows his runners.
http://www.flotrack.org/video/712300-Brenda-Martinez-interval-session-with-all-out-400m-tag
Whats the point of that last fast 400m all out? How often do athletes do this and what does it achieve..?
oldpwolf wrote:
i ran on a d3 team that had 5 guys running 1:49-1:53 at one point (one guy could run 47 open 400, another was AA in the 400H). they did 12-20min "tempo" runs weekly. the pure 400/800 guys dreaded them (more so than 800/1500 guys) and would often puke their guts out on ones they really pushed.
"tempo" is in quotes b/c these workouts were often faster than a true threshold run if you go by the definition of "tempo = pace you could run for an hour". whatever the pace, it was 12-20min of pure discomfort for these guys.
all 5 did XC in the fall as well, peak 50-60 mpw for the pure 800 guys, 70-90 for the 800/1500 guys.
the brojos say it all the time, strength = speed. even in the 800. tempo runs build that strength yo.
True they were not treshold tempo, nobody would puke off that. Threshold training is quite easy if done is such low doses. Its called comfortable hard for a reason.
Whatever works for peoples bodies is good mileage. Some people\'s bodies can\'t handle higher mileage and do better off lower mileage
Agree with the earlier comment that those with fast twitch dominance need more mileage. Going to call BS on the report that she ran 15 min for a 3 mile tempo. My 800 PR was the same as hers as a junior in HS on similar mileage and my 3 mile race PR was 15:20 on the track in spikes. Furthermore 5 min pace for 3 miles would put her as a top 30 US 5k women and she's running that as a tempo?
jello wrote:
I remember hearing that double olympic champ Kelly Holmes was extremely low mileage and ran no longer than 60 minutes.
Kelly Holmes was also doped to the gills. Not a good example.
well she obviously has better endurance than you above 800m: https://twitter.com/bmartrun/status/350076107233579008/photo/1"June 8 3 mile anaerobic tempo, 14:54""June 15 3 mile anaerobic tempo, 15:15
Dhshgash wrote:
Going to call BS on the report that she ran 15 min for a 3 mile tempo. My 800 PR was the same as hers as a junior in HS on similar mileage and my 3 mile race PR was 15:20 on the track in spikes. Furthermore 5 min pace for 3 miles would put her as a top 30 US 5k women and she's running that as a tempo?
she could have ran US trials at 800, 1500, or 5K and had a shot at top 3, she's got that kind of range. not a true "tempo" based on traditional definitions, but ~15min of discomfort in training that's geared to build strength. Vig knows what he's doing.
Wait what Russia, GBR, South Africa.
What? Those countries suck at distance/mid distance running other than Mo and Caster Semenya.
The US is probably 2nd in the world in mid distance running to Kenya, and its closer than you think.
Canova>God wrote:
If that is true then she is running more mileage than Diego Estrada who has the same coach and is around 50-60mpw. Goes to show how athletes can be so different.
Can anyone elaborate on Coach Vigil's coaching philosophy here? I remember hearing from a few Flagstaff guys that Estrada was running around 100mpw his Junior and Senior years at NAU. Why the sudden shift towards such lower mileage and higher intensity? Especially when an 800/1500 female athlete under the same coach is running more mileage...
Estrada speaks about mileage here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gZI3hVI631Y
It sounds like he gets injured off of high mileage and has found success with lower mileage.
70 IS high for W800. Even for a 1500 it seems like an upper limit. Martinez puts priority on speed endurance. This (along with DNA) is the difference among women world class mid distance runners that separates them from others. Let the distance freaks go with 70+ mpw.
The W800 is neither a sprint nor run event now. It is a speed endurance event.
70 miles seems high for Martinez. Doesn't she live at altitude? What % of mileage do you add on? 10?15?20?
boi wonder wrote:
Is it true she runs 3 mile tempos near 5 flat? Saw it on her twitter. Whats the point of this workout? for 800 athlete
Ryan Martin had a 4 mile tempo run WOW on Flotrack earlier this season and he's a strictly 800 guy. Tempos build a lot of strength which is needed in the 800.
who cares if its too much. It working, no? :)
the point of that final 400m all out is to train the body and mind to remember that you can still run fast when tired. it is necessary for all mid-distance/distance runners to have a kick and to develop that kick. Such a "tag" at the end of a workout helps to achieve that physically, and if it goes really well, mentally it is also quite a confidence boost.
As for how often, I would say a form of this is done by most distance runners around 1-2 times a week, maybe more depending where in their training block they are. our team does them in the form of 100m "strides" after their runs twice a week (usually 4-8 of them depending on the day).