do beasts of nature feel pain when they are eaten by predators?

No, everything to an animal is just a light tickling sensation. I'm sure the lion died smiling.

Presumably, but I would argue that the sort of pain felt by animals is qualitatively different, and of a lesser magnitude than the pain felt by humans. This is because a creature incapable of self-reflection or conscious thought has no way of anticipating the pain, or of recognizing the implications of the pain. The pain is unaccompanied by human emotions like fear, humiliation, despair, etc. There is no thought process to the effect of "Woe is me, I am currently experiencing unprecedented agony and my existence is about to end!"

Op..

I'm just going to leave this video here and you can decide for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc63Rp-UN10

It's really hard for me to watch that video.

while not existential pain, you can sure bet there was physical pain beyond belief. Have you ever had a dog yelp when you accidentally stepped on its foot? ouch!

no pain no gain! wrote:

human emotions like fear, humiliation, despair, etc. There is no thought process to the effect of "Woe is me, I am currently experiencing unprecedented agony and my existence is about to end!"

Are you kidding? None of those are solely human emotions. Have you never been around a dog? Yes, animals aren't capable ontological despair in the same way humans are, but I find it hard to believe that being mauled by a lion is anything short of a totally horrific experience in the eyes of a gazelle.

no pain no gain! wrote:

Presumably, but I would argue that the sort of pain felt by animals is qualitatively different, and of a lesser magnitude than the pain felt by humans. This is because a creature incapable of self-reflection or conscious thought has no way of anticipating the pain, or of recognizing the implications of the pain. The pain is unaccompanied by human emotions like fear, humiliation, despair, etc. There is no thought process to the effect of "Woe is me, I am currently experiencing unprecedented agony and my existence is about to end!"

I agree with other posters about how wrong you are. We are mammals. Take a look at our nervous system and that of the elephant in the video above and you will see basically the exact same thing formed to do the exact same jobs. I guarantee you they feel every single bit of pain that any human would feel under such circumstances. Their bodies would go into the same shock our would. The difference for us is that a lion could actually kill you quickly, whereas, elephants and large wildebeests can live for some time while having their bodies eaten away. That must be far worse than a quick death.

Emotions are not the sole right of humans. No way. Elephants visit the bones of dead relatives on their yearly migrations. They will put themselves in danger of dying in order to save babies.

I guess I wasn't clear...didn't mean to imply that animals don't feel pain or emotions. Just meant that all other things being equal, a sentient being will feel more pain than a non-sentient being. The physical pain is equal, but the sentient being has an added layer of self-reflexive mental pain that compounds the overall amount of suffering by a LOT. You have the opportunity to reflect on the pain and all its implications before, during, and after the event. The non-sentient being only experiences the here and now. Think about it, would you rather be circumcised as a newborn or as a 25-year-old?

Sure they do. How pain is processed at the level of the CNS is going to vary dramatically. My guess is that an insect experiences pain in the sense of activation of specific receptor cells but this does not resemble human perception of pain. Same for annelids, crustacean, nematodes, flatworms, most molluscs. I imagine that all mammals are capable of experiencing pain similarly to humans. Perhaps most chordates but not urochordates. That said, I would also guess that for those taxa that do have human-like pain processing, there is a shock response that attenuates the perception of pain at the moment of an attack.

beasts wrote:

saw something utterly terrible on the television set last night with a baby lion being eaten by hyenas. did it feel pain??

no pain no gain! wrote:

This is because a creature incapable of self-reflection or conscious thought has no way of anticipating the pain, or of recognizing the implications of the pain. The pain is unaccompanied by human emotions like fear, humiliation, despair, etc. There is no thought process to the effect of "Woe is me, I am currently experiencing unprecedented agony and my existence is about to end!"

You have obviously never owned a dog.

Dogs clearly experience different emotions, and know when they have done something "wrong" in the eyes of an owner - they go to other rooms, lower their heads and often do this before you tell them they were "bad" if they have made a mess in the house. I have seen dogs that empty the garbage or do something during the day when left alone that the dog should not have done, that same dog that is overjoyed to see you normally when you return, does not greet you when you return on that day.

Dogs have "body language" just like people. They clearly experience joy and sadness. When you leave on vacation and return a week later the dog may ignore you for leaving her. Dogs are much closer to us than we may like to admit.

I have seen pictures of mother elephants clearly grieving the loss of a baby and I have experienced dogs who grieve the loss of another dog in the house.

Dogs will sniff and lie next to a dead companion and seem to understand death.

no pain no gain! wrote:

Think about it, would you rather be circumcised as a newborn or as a 25-year-old?

I hope that you are joking. Newborns get circumcised because:

a) They are completely powerless to object.

and

b) Adults (like you) are really good about rationalizing their actions, including rationalizing away any pain and suffering of others as being not quite as significant as their own.

[quote]beasts wrote:

saw something utterly terrible on the television set last night with a baby lion being eaten by hyenas. did it feel pain??[/quote

I'm not sure. Does a pickle feel pain when it is eaten?

Hey, what is your best 'guestimate' regarding how much a jar of pickles weighs? 1 kilogram?

what is a beast of nature?

Probably did. Only the honey badger doesn't because he just don't care.

beasts wrote:

saw something utterly terrible on the television set last night with a baby lion being eaten by hyenas. did it feel pain??

Did he look relaxed?

For some reason, I keep misreading the title as “do breasts of nature feel pain when they are eaten by predators?”.

I believe that when things go according to nature laws, preys are kind of protected (by god, or scientific mechanisms with hormons etc, call it how you want) from suffering too much when giving their life to the predator so that the latter can live.

I have noticed several times - when a cat is chasing and eating a mouse - that after the initial fear and instinct of survival from the mouse, there is a point where the little thing seems to knows it's over and accepts its fate and looks fine with it like "oh well, i'm being eaten by a cat, that's how it is after all, it's not that bad". And doesn't seems to suffer.

I've had the the same feeling watching on tv or youtube a Lion killing an antelope.

Sure you can probably find many counter examples like the video above. But I still think it's how it works most of the time.