Do you think it's necessary for me to do full atg squats if I'm doing deadlift? I don't really want to do too much squat as that'll make my legs tired for running. I don't like doing power lifting style squats as that feels very unnatural to me. But do you think that'll help with running?
This goes for all runners that are not currently running in college or considered sub elite: Why not lift more often, gain a few pounds in the upper body? Does it matter if you run 17:30 or 17:45? It is better to look normal than be a skinny twerp? I always hear from runners about being healthy, but when are some of you going to work ALL the muscles in your body?
Ideally you would work both the squat and deadlift patterns at some point each week.
If you're doing heavy deads, do a dozen really deep squats (e.g. goblet squat with dumbell, or front squats, or single leg pistols) as part of your warmup. You don't have to do every movement heavily, but it's great to keep in the habit of a really deep squat.
A wise lifter once said: "my knees sometimes hurt when I squat, but always hurt when I don't"
That mileage and heavy heavy lifting do not mix. They do not. Nothing you can do OP.
A friend in college worked out on the weights quite a bit in the gym. He had big arms anad could bench press 3 sets of 10 with 180, but couldn't press 200 pounds. This was on a machine, not free weights.
I walked in and pressed 230 pounds. He couldn't believe that I did that with my "skinny arms" but I did. Then I pressed 235 and left. I couldn't press 180 more then 3 times but that didn't matter. I never did reps. I didn't want big arms, I wanted to be lean and strong.
If you do the same thing, the same thing will happen to you. If you want to have big arms or fat legs then do reps. If you want to be lean and strong then do singles.
J.R. wrote:
If you do the same thing, the same thing will happen to you. If you want to have big arms or fat legs then do reps. If you want to be lean and strong then do singles.
Just to clarify, by "singles" do you mean do 1 rep? Do you recommend multiple sets of 1 rep, or no? And, do you go for max, or some submax percentage?
What exercises would you suggest for a distance runner?
Thanks. Interesting.
for me... wrote:
Just to clarify, by "singles" do you mean do 1 rep? Do you recommend multiple sets of 1 rep, or no? And, do you go for max, or some submax percentage?
What exercises would you suggest for a distance runner?
Thanks. Interesting.
Yes, 1 rep, no repeats. Yes, you can do multiple sets of 1 rep, but you don't need to do a lot of them because your focus is running. The closer to max the better.
deadlift
clean
box clean
clean & press
There should be at least 3 to 5 minutes between reps, and longer if you want. At school, I'd walk in and bench press (on machine) 1x210, 1x220, 1x230, and leave, which was the most that I did. Sometimes I'd walk in, press 1x230, and leave.
I started by doing just the olympic lifts and was weak, could only press 50 pounds over my head. In 6 weeks I could press 125, then 140 in a couple of months, same for snatch, and 180 clean & jerk. All singles. When I started I just left my max on the bar, and lifted it a few times a day at the most, adding 2 1/2 pounds when I was ready to do more.
Later on c&j 280 at 146# but wasn't running at the time, started running again and lost a lot of strength but was still very strong for quite a long time. I hadn't run for 5 years and ran a 53 quarter cold, no warmup in tennis shoes on dirt track, but had no endurance. A little strength is good, but too much is counter productive. Singles are best.
Is there any way to effectively combine single lifts and sets of 8-12?
I'm convinced that doing a few sets of 10 reps and adding a bit of muscle has been responsible for keeping me injury free, but I can also accept that some heavy singles might provide some additional performance benefits rather than just making me more robust.
Perhaps doing 2 'warmup' sets of 8-12 reps at a solid weight then taking several minutes before going into doing a few single reps at much heavier weights?
Or after a far briefer warm up maybe do a few heavy singles and finish with 2-3 sets of 8-10 reps before moving on to the next exercise?
I'd appreciate any input on this.
When you get into reps, you're pumping the muscles for bulk, not for strength. You're primarily getting bigger. This is the body builder type of training.
The opposite of this is training for maximum strength per weight, which is done by olympic weightlifters. All of this training is done with singles, not reps.
When you are used to lifting near maximum weights every time, then you don't need to lift a light weight a lot of times to warm up, as that is the opposite of what you're going to be doing! Let's say you can press 100 pounds over your head. The most warmup you would need would be 1x80, 1x90, 1x100, with 3 to 5 minutes after each, and you're done.
There is no reason to do that much lifting for running.
Here try some of these 10 times hehe. Note Galabin Boevski, back squat 550 pounds at 152#. I did 385 at 146# in less than 2 years training, not bad but it was way too much for running. Just doing a little bit to keep strong is enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLNzd_FcThs&list=PL93872951802A6AE8
J.R. wrote:
When you get into reps, you're pumping the muscles for bulk, not for strength. You're primarily getting bigger. This is the body builder type of training.
The opposite of this is training for maximum strength per weight, which is done by olympic weightlifters. All of this training is done with singles, not reps.
When you are used to lifting near maximum weights every time, then you don't need to lift a light weight a lot of times to warm up, as that is the opposite of what you're going to be doing! Let's say you can press 100 pounds over your head. The most warmup you would need would be 1x80, 1x90, 1x100, with 3 to 5 minutes after each, and you're done.
There is no reason to do that much lifting for running.
Studies have shown runners do not put on muscle mass. No matter how they lift, they will not put on mass if they are concurrently running.
personally this spring track season i had good success lifting 2X a week on easy days (Mon & Fri). 50-110 minutes VERY easy in the early a.m, breakfast + recover a bit, then into work for the morning before lifting over lunch.
i felt the easy run served as sort of a 'shakeout' for the lifting session & i could really get after it (as opposed to if i had lifted first, then ran afterwards or later). also lifting later in the day when my body was fully awake allowed me to put up more weight than if i stumbled into the gym half-asleep at 6am and tried to lift (just like how you wouldn't schedule an intense interval workout for the early a.m.).
typical week looked like:
M-8 + lift
T-5 am,10pm
W-8
Th-5am,10pm
F-8 + lift
S-10
S-15
did workouts on Tues & Thurs nights. lifting around noon on Mon. didn't really affect how i felt Tues pm as i had 24h+ recovery time (if i put off heavy lifting until Mon. night i would sometimes feel it Tues. pm).
i like 2X a week because 1) i get next-day soreness if i only lift 1X a week, and 2) i think their is a real nueromuscular/muscle memory component to the big lifts (squats, deadlifts, cleans) and you won't get good at them unless you do the movement frequently.
i set PRs in the 800, mile, and 5K this spring in my late 20s, i have no doubt the emphasis i put on lifting played a big part in this. my speed was as good as it's ever been, and pound-for-pound i've never been stronger.
ex phys wrote:
Studies have shown runners do not put on muscle mass. No matter how they lift, they will not put on mass if they are concurrently running.
That is totally wrong.
I've seen the same thing said about women, and I've seen some 800 pound women.
J.R. wrote:
That is totally wrong.
I've seen the same thing said about women, and I've seen some 800 pound women.
Synthetic testosterone or steroids.
Have you ever seen an 800lb distance runner?
I bet you haven't even seen a good distance runner over 160 pounds. With the exceptions being Solinsky or Mottram, and those guys weren't big because of weight lifting.
You're basing a lot of stuff off of your own anecdotal evidence which is fine (I highly doubt you've actually seen an 800lb woman). However what I'm explaining is widely regarded as true backed by scientific evidence.
Distane runners have to eat like absolute animals if they are to even put on minor weight. So much so that is a healthy sustainable diet.
*isn't sorry
eat a lot, sleep a lot.
if you eat enough food to compensate for the calories you're burning lifting and running, and sleep enough to give your body time to recover, you can definitely do both.
ex phys wrote:
You're basing a lot of stuff off of your own anecdotal evidence which is fine (I highly doubt you've actually seen an 800lb woman). However what I'm explaining is widely regarded as true backed by scientific evidence.
Distane runners have to eat like absolute animals if they are to even put on minor weight. So much so that is a healthy sustainable diet.
i think you're doing the same thing you're accusing JR of. Personally, if I don't watch what I eat I WILL put on weight, at 90-120 mpw. And if I'm lifting a lot I WILL put on muscle mass.
so your anecdotal evidence is worth even less than J.Rs and you come across as being slightly full of sh!t.
I'm not giving anecdotal evidence I'm giving you evidence backed by research.
http://jap.physiology.org/content/65/5/2285.short
-I think Tri subjects because they say they are training in both cycling and running.
"After 10 wk, leg strength was increased by an average of 30%, but thigh girth and biopsied vastus lateralis muscle fiber areas (fast and slow twitch) and citrate synthase activities were unchanged."
-Adding resistance training to female runners. No affect on body composition.
http://www.hokksund-rehab.no/filarkiv/File/Forskningsartikler/StoerenHelgerud_et_al_2008.pdf
-"No changes were found in V˙ O2max or body weight."
Face it, unless you are doing something out of the ordinary (i.e., taking in too many calories or stop running) you will not gain muscle mass.
OP here.
After more research, I've decided to forego weight training, and just run. I'm going with specificity is king method.
I don't see how any strength I'll add will help with running and hinder my running as I won't be able to run more mileage. To add running specific strength, I'll do hills. For speed, I'll do sprints.