Most of their runners come from the military forces...And there is NO corruption in their military forces???
It´s not my problem
Seppelt's allegations are wild to say the least. One need not be a rocket scientist to smell the malice lased in these claims. But even if granted they do, how can a whole world focused on why such an exceptional performance by Kenyans year-in-year out fail to have noticed this a long time ago under the numerous must-do tests after and even before major competeitions? How would you explain a standard six pupil who goes for a junior international championships and wins against ususal competitors, thus emuliating their senior counterparts? It just goes to demonstrate the unique attribute of the inherent athletic prowess in the Kenyans. These young folks step into the city the first time when they are boarding the plane..meaning they have no access to the said sophisticated doctors.
It is unbelievable and we shall continue to win clean. By the way we are deeply religious in all aspects of our lives and cherish winning straight and clean because of the satisfaction it brings...every journalist has always heard Kenyans attribute their success to God!!
I rest my case
Simon Chebon wrote:
It is unbelievable and we shall continue to win clean. By the way we are deeply religious in all aspects of our lives and cherish winning straight and clean because of the satisfaction it brings...every journalist has always heard Kenyans attribute their success to God!!
I rest my case
I love this rubbish.
It always strikes me as being odd as to why there's so much violence and crime in these countries that claim to be too 'devout and pure of soul' to ever cheat at sport.
Especially given as the OP of this thread has already admitted that Kenyans see foreigners as an exploitation opportunity and won't hesitate in being dishonest to them for personal gain.
Plenty of American athletes attribute their successes to God too. Nobody has any problem with accepting that the US has had its problems with dopers though, but you're using this belief in the supernatural as a reason why Kenyans wouldn't cheat.
is it cheating when kenyans misrepresent themselves to american colleges to obtain a full scholarship? only to turn up on campus completely out of shape and unable to even make the varsity team. or is that just a lie?
people, even the god fearing, will do all kinds of things for a chance at a better life.
Um...kenya is an incredible corrupt and violent nation by western standards. Chebon - are you kidding?
US leads the world in reported crimes, does it mean all Americans are criminals?
FTFY.Highlighted in bold for you.
Runthedistance wrote:
US leads the world in reported crimes, does it mean all Americans are criminals?
Let me tried again, The homocide murder rate is higher in America than in Kenya, does it mean all Amerians are bad?
Runthedistance wrote:
Let me tried again, The homocide murder rate is higher in America than in Kenya, does it mean all Amerians are bad?
I don't see what America has to do with anything.
Somebody said that Kenyans don't cheat because it's a very religious nation.
I merely asked the question as to why this strong belief in god stopped people from cheating at sport, but it doesn't seem to stop the country from being extremely violent - or indeed for the level of corruption in the country to be off the scale.
I have been reading through all these threads and havent seen anyone suplly a cogent, defendable argument as to why they think there is mass doping in Kenya. All I have seen is stuff like "Every country has dopers so Kenyans must also be doping". That kind of lame argument will not stand up in a court of law or in any debate aside from debates that are conducted with the anonymity of the internet.
Who is going to stand up and give us an decent thesis on why they think there is mass doping in Kenya.
stop jalousie wrote:
Who is going to stand up and give us an decent thesis on why they think there is mass doping in Kenya.
If the USA completely dominated distance running, didn't have a credible anti-doping programme, and you could just walk into a high-street pharmacy and purchase EPO - would you have any doubts about the legitimacy of American athletes?
Particularly if every American athlete seemed to have a close relationship with a European doctor/agent/coach, many of whom seem to have a very high level knowledge of how the blood works and responds to various stimulus.
Well - the question is rhetorical - of course you would. It's only taboo because the country in question is a nice, religious, happy, smiley, could never possibly cheat nation.
Trollism
If the US suddenly started to dominate distance running and did not have a decent anti doping program I would be suspicious because:
1. The US does not have a tradition of dominating distance races so why the sudden improvement ?
2. It is well known that top US sportsmen use dope (baseball, NFL, boxing, MMA, Track, Cycling ) all are rife with dope users. Until recently dope use was acceptable in baseball. Kenya is not known for dope use in any sport.
3. American track athletes are generally not from poor backgrounds so affording dope and also affording masking agents to hide the dope is not that difficult. Most kenyan runners start their careers poor.
4. America has a large market for dope users. This makes it feasible for a chemist to spend time and money developing cutting edge PEDs. Thats why the latest PEDS are easily obtaionable in the US. The market for dope sellers in Kenya is fairly limited or non existent. You cant make much money selling dope in Kenya. If you have good stuff, you would not waste time in Kenya. You better pack up and go to the US and sell to people who want to be the next Lance Armstrong or Barry Bonds or Clemence. Or any other western country
But you can't just walk into a pharmacy and purchase EPO in the US, but you can in Kenya.
There must be a certain market for it.
Bit strange considering this is a country of 40 million people who are either genetically unable or too devout to consider cheating at sport.
Why does the stuff have to be 'good stuff'? If it does the job and nobody is going to be testing you, does it even matter?
Kenya is not known for doping in any sport, because besides distance running Kenya is not known for doing any thing in any sport at all.
For mass doping to be happening succesfully in Kenya, it would have to be good stuff i.e stuff for which there is no test. They would also need to have access to very good masking agents.
If all they used was EPO, and there was mass doping in Kenya then very many Kenyans would have been busted by now. There is a urine test that has been available for EPO. Considering that IAAF regularly dispatches their people to test Kenyans in and out of competition, then if these claims about mass doping are true , then far more Kenyans shouuld have been busted by now.
Remember, kenyans are amongst the most tested bu IAAf in and out of competition.
There are many countries in the world that are more screwed up and corrupt than Kenya. Why don't we see runners coming out of those countries and doing well, obviously they have access to all kinds of drugs. Most of the countries in Africa are corrupt, Uganda,Tanzania, Congo, etc why Kenya? Corruption in Kenyan is carried out by politicians and their cronies, an average Kenyan toil in the sun day in day out trying to provide food for their families. Kenyan runners know and understand the benefits of hard work and they know cheating will not get you far in running. Kenya compared to many countries in the world have been able to build their economy by relying mainly on the hardwork of its own people.If the basic foundation of your economy is agriculture and you are able to feed, educate, provide medical services to most of your people, fund development and infrusructure projets and finance 93% of your budget then your people must be doing something right. Kenya did not have any natural resoures like oil, gas etc untill recently when they discovered oil. If you asked anyone what is the one thing that Kenya can be proud of, the answer will be it's own people. The corruption and violence that you see or saw in Kenya is mainly because of bad leadership and the need to hang on to power, the Kenyan people have been working hard to rid these people out of office and the battle is winding down since most institutions have been reformed and Kenyans dream of a nation that reflects their image is not to far away. Lets us not confuse the hard working Kenyan people with the rotten politicians in Nairobi.
I am Still waiting for a convincing argument as to why anyone can make the claim that there is mass doping amongst Kenyans.
So far all that Trollism can muster is "There are pharmacies in Kenya so some Kenyans must be able to buy EPO".
Is that supposed to justify the allegation of mass doping in Kenya ? All countries have pharmacies. Is there mass doping in all these countries too ?
I'm not sure whether it's a problem with intelligence or whether you're simply all too emotional about the issue, but I'll try to answer again but in an even simpler fashion to be helpful.
1) What was that rubbish about pharmacies you wrote. That German guy walked into a healthfood shop/pharmacy and the bloke made a phonecall and soon enough he was in the back with a nice stash of EPO. This implies that he's not the first European agent to go into the shop and do the very same thing. You can't do this in the US - it's a bit more complicated.
2) The testing thing is a fallacy. Kenya is only more tested by the IAAF because it's not got the facilities or the inclination to do any testing themselves. Countries that can be trusted to do their own testing don't get tested by the IAAF so therefore the figures are skewed.
3)IAAF OOC testing is very easy to get around. No athlete from any nation has ever served a whereabouts ban after missing IAAF tests. This is a statistical anomoly which implies that an athlete can miss IAAF OOC tests without any worry.
4) Every country has cheaters. This nonsense that those mental Kenyans (and perhaps even more mental non-Kenyan fanboys) come out with about how they're just non a nation that cheats is stupid. Nobody is saying that Kenya is successful because of doping, although that's how some of you dimwits seem to take it. Kenya has a lot of athletes that do a sport which directly benefits from doping - to suggest that a reasonably significant proportion of those are not cheating is pretty naive. Particularly when you add in the 'Renato' factor, that most of the top guys are involved in. (I would be more suspicious of the legion of marathon runners and their agents to be fair, these guys will hardly ever (if ever) get tested.)
You seem to have the opinion that there's not mass doping happening in Kenya and it seems a pretty strong opinion. I doubt that you'll get a "convincing" argument because you're already convinced of the opposite viewpoint.
That said, I don't think anyone is claiming "mass doping" in Kenya. Most of the "negative" comments seem to point out that drugs like EPO are available in Kenya which must mean that someone is using them. Do you have a convincing argument as to why it's unreasonable to consider the possibility that some of those someones aren't distance runners aside from the usual claims that Kenyans are somehow less susceptible to that sort of temptation than other humans are?