'88 10k OG - Last few laps - Majestic !

I remeber watching that race. They went out in 61 with Boutayeb fighting for the lead.

The Golden Age of Mediterranean doping.

Blood doping? Hadn't thought of that, as was watching it and thinking how it was before EPO.

Kind of cool, though, for a North African, European, and East African splitting the top 3 instead of an East African sweep like we (almost) always see now.

ventolin^3 wrote:

won in 27'21 in hot/humid/horrible conditions with virtual walk-in for last 30m when wr was 27'13 from 5y before in great conditions

http://www.4shared.com/video/OSiPfhHH/99i0QP3cNO4.html

I've got most of this race on tape, if only I knew how to convert it to computer/dvd.

This race impressed me greatly, all of them fighting and contributing all the way, awesome running by all of them.

This was one of the greatest 10,000's that I've ever seen.

just a very prelim estimate for him in '88, but i think that day he couda demolished the 3k or 5k or 10k wrs on a circuit race in oslo or bruxelles

he had speed

i'd go with a very prelim :

1'47.5 / 3'32 ->7'27.1 , 12'53.3 , 27'03.4

he was still likely a better 5k runner than 10k one ( just moved up to 10k ? ) & probably only ran 10k because aouita may have run the 5k

Ventolin did you create the calculator you use?

Why cant you use it for anything under 400? Wind?

Its very interesting.

Great race. Atlanta 10k is still the best 10k I've ever seen. Geb and Tergat duking it out with Salah Hissou in the thick of it until the very end. The last 5k in Atlanta was crazy.

Well, his lifetime PBs for 1000m, 1500m, 1 Mile, 2000m, 3000m, 2 Miles and 5000m were: 2:24.57, 3:36,35, 3:54.86, 5:07.74, 7:38,39, 8:21.00 and 13:10.44.

Clear indication that he was capable of breaking the 3000m and 5000m WRs! Over 6 seconds improvement in the 3k? No problem. Over 12 seconds in the 5k? No problem. And a 4 second improvement in the 1500m? Also, no problem. I think he could have done all of this in Seoul.

Back to reality. The 88 Olympic final was by far his best race ever. Maybe he was able to break Mamedes 4 year old WR on that day. There is not a single evidence that he ever was capable of breaking any of the other records. 3:32 for 1500m?!? Don`t know were the connection between Boutaib and this 3:32 comes from. Not a single evidence for it.

whatever athletics you've watched, it is clear you are no judge of "horseflesh"

unlike the stick thin 10k kenyans of then like ngugi/kimeli & then later tergat, he has the build of a 1500 guy

he was also a 5ker who had just moved up to 10k to avoid aouita & thus his strength was the 5k & lesser distances

i have no problem seeing him as a 3'32 guy that day considering a similar build guy like aouita was capable of 3'28

it also needs to be pointed out that that was the best day of his life & no other run came close - he was at an awesome career peak that day

he also was at 27'17 pace at 8k, which with a push in last 2k, especially last 1k, wouda got him the record

in addition, it was a real race in savage weather conditions, not a "controlled" tt on a cool oslo or stockholm day

those 2 factors alone must be worth close to 10s

that is getting him close to 27-flat

then we have general rule of thumb, that an = strong 5k/10k has a relationship of

~ 10k = 2*5k + 1'00

for a 27'00 -> 13'00

however, he was a 5k guy moving upto 10k & i'd bet good money that 5k for him was still better distance than 10k

for that, you'd knock some seconds off that 13'00, probably using 12'55 as a yardstick

the 3k from there just depends upon speed - virtually all ~ 12'55 guys shoud be able to go 7'30

i reckon he had better leg speed than the myriad 7'30/12'55 kenyans that followed & that will get him well below 7'30

This is delusional, even for you ventolin. That is a high bar but you made it over with room to spare.

dazzle us...

Well, he ran 6 5000m races in 88. Best time: 13:18.68. He ran (at least) 5 3000m races in 88. Best time: 7:43.22. He ran a mile in 3:58.69 in 88 and a 1500m in 3:38.75.

If you see him in 3:32, sub 7:30 and 12:55 for in Seoul - OK, that up to you (also it`s hard to understand for me). For me, it is not a question at all, that he was not even close to achieve these times. Not in Seoul and not at any time in his career. Unlike you - as it seems- I have many many races of him in my collection. He never ever was anything like a 1500m guy. Not anybody with the same build like Aouita has the same capabilities and the same motivation.

And that Boutaib was capable of running faster over 10k in Seoul is not a question. Nobody doubts this. The WR maybe was in his reach. But not close to 27:00.

ventolin^3 wrote:

whatever athletics you've watched, it is clear you are no judge of "horseflesh"

unlike the stick thin 10k kenyans of then like ngugi/kimeli & then later tergat, he has the build of a 1500 guy

BB was about 5'7 and 132 lbs. You know NOTHING about physiology. His build is as perfect for a marathoner or 10,000 meter runner as anything else. Please stop embarrassing yourself darling.

you clearly have no clue about "peaking"

kelly holmes looked a no hoper in '04 when she got whupped by a pole in 4'03 in zurich just 3/52 before athens

in athens she suddenly ran 3'57.9, with large parts of the curves run in lane 2 - probably ran 10 - 15m extra distance to 1500m in 3'57.9

add in some uneven pacing, she was in 3'55-flat shape that day

those pre-race runs by boutayeb are execrable - you seriously believe he was in 13'18 shape that day ???

& you also believe the pacing & the conditions in seoul were anywhere close to expected in oslo or stockholm ???

idiot

post better than crap from iaaf bios

they list kennster as 5' 8 1/2"

use your eyes & brain

You're delusional Ventolin. He ran a great race on the day and definitely had a few more seconds in him but he was surely right on his red line.

He had plenty of other opportunities to show his stuff and that's as good as he was.

You may want to use your ridiculous calculator to speculate on performances before they happen rather than applying wishful thinking to the past.

ventolin^3 wrote:

those pre-race runs by boutayeb are execrable - you seriously believe he was in 13'18 shape that day ???

& you also believe the pacing & the conditions in seoul were anywhere close to expected in oslo or stockholm ???

Where have I said anything like he was in 13:18 shape that day? He obviously was in better shape than 13:18 in Seoul. But from a sub 13:10 it`s still a long way to 12:55.

And the 3:32?? Nway, absolute no way. Can`t understand this conclusion from a 10k performance to this time which is MUCH better what he ever has done.

But as I said - it up to you to believe this. And it is OK.

ventolin^3 wrote:

idiot

post better than crap from iaaf bios

they list kennster as 5' 8 1/2"

use your eyes & brain

Yeah, BB is listed at and looks to be about 5'7 and 132 lbs. Next?

SMJO wrote:but he was surely right on his red line

27'17 pace at 8k & walking in the last 20 - 30m for 27'21 - that finish must cost 2 maybe 3s alone

"surely" is based on what ?

He had plenty of other opportunities to show his stuff and that's as good as he was

see kelly holmes - a 10y+ career at 1500 & looked 5 or 6s better in 3/52 in '04

You may want to use your ridiculous calculator to speculate on performances before they happen rather than applying wishful thinking to the past.

if your happy to just look at lists & comfort in them, good for you

if you want to consider possible "true merit" of a guy, then don't read my posts in case it gives you irruption