private schools in south/southwest & NXN

Whoever is asking this is apparetly fishing for some dirt on Tatnall. Well, here goes. They heavily recruit. Their coach is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Don't buy into all the class act stuff, it's a HUGE front. He steels the best girls from other schools. Some of their runners go to another school freshman year and then get a magic ticket to their school. Also, DE has a rule that allows 7th/8th graders to run up. Their coach also now coaches the lower school. Soooo, he gets a kid from 3rd through 12th grade. Super high intensity training. Tatnall is getting a name around the NCAA as a place NOT to recruit. Most of their kids run horrible in college. The best kids in the area get a phone call or a letter when they are in 8th grade. It's not super hard to be a good team when you have 7th grade girls running 18:30's. There are rules against many of the things their school does, but everyone turns a blind eye. The saddest part is that all these parents think they are doing the best thing for their child. In reality, they all hate running after 12th grade and most never take a step after. Not selling my daughters soul to the devil. She'll attend another school with a coaching staff who cares about my kid, not about a time.

Whoever is asking this is apparetly fishing for some dirt on Tatnall. Well, here goes. They heavily recruit. Their coach is a wolf in sheeps clothing. Don't buy into all the class act stuff, it's a HUGE front. He steels the best girls from other schools. Some of their runners go to another school freshman year and then get a magic ticket to their school. Also, DE has a rule that allows 7th/8th graders to run up. Their coach also now coaches the lower school. Soooo, he gets a kid from 3rd through 12th grade. Super high intensity training. Tatnall is getting a name around the NCAA as a place NOT to recruit. Most of their kids run horrible in college. The best kids in the area get a phone call or a letter when they are in 8th grade. It's not super hard to be a good team when you have 7th grade girls running 18:30's. There are rules against many of the things their school does, but everyone turns a blind eye. The saddest part is that all these parents think they are doing the best thing for their child. In reality, they all hate running after 12th grade and most never take a step after. Not selling my daughters soul to the devil. She'll attend another school with a coaching staff who cares about my kid, not about a time.

Julie Bortorff now at Duke by way of Tatnall was 10K outdoor champ this past spring. Not too shabby.

Reason why you are seeing a lot of private schools is because of the cost of travel. Its not expensive but its also not cheap to take a whole team to run in a race, stay in a hotel, gas, food, etc.

old coach man wrote:

Reason why you are seeing a lot of private schools is because of the cost of travel. Its not expensive but its also not cheap to take a whole team to run in a race, stay in a hotel, gas, food, etc.

It's not just that. Private schools draw from a huge area, kids will pick the school with the best teams, the private schools/catholic schools will dominate most sports if they want to.

Brentwood (TN) is not a private school. Granted, it's in the wealthiest system in Tennessee, but it is a public school.

Tennessee's other qualifier (Oak Ridge in 2007) is also a public school.

From their website-"Brentwood Academy is a co-educational, independent, college preparatory school dedicated to nurturing and challenging the whole person – body, mind, and spirit – to the glory of God".



FYI, all 4 SE qualifiers are PRIVATE. Tatnall has kids from at least 4 different states and the 12 year old who ran 18:35 in the open race will be at Tatnall next year

Texas has protected their private schools because the UIL is a strong governing body that has shut out private schools except for Strake and Dallas Jesuit.

The championships that UIL provides in track and cross country far exceed anything the private schools can come up with due to the size of the state. There are just too many public school athletes and schools competing for these spots for any private school league to compete with.

Southlake Carroll is probably the 2nd most affluent community in Texas behind Highland Park. Kingwood is in an elite group along with The Woodlands, College Park, Cinco Ranch, and Seven Lakes.

Texas seems to get more of their schools to the NXN South meet because it is located in The Woodlands. The whole Houston area can just attend the meet with practically no cost.

The Fort Worth schools that are good will make the trip down. Those schools are also affluent.

You are unlikely to see schools from west or south Texas making the trip unless they feel they have a shot at getting to the big meet.

To the OP - I don't know anything about the SE schools you are mentioning, but your theory about Arizona is wrong. Distance running is very popular here and it has nothing to do with heat.

Xavier, it is true, is a private girls high school, and it has had a lot of success recently in distance running, but it has more to do with the fact that they have a very good coach, they are not limited to one geographic school district, and the parents have the money and organizational skills to support their kids. The adjacent boys school, Brophy, produces some good distance runners but has not had the success that Xavier has had. There was a thread about Xavier within the past month or two, if you use the Search function.

Arizona has plenty of participation from the opposite end of the socioeconomic spectrum. Running is extremely popular up on the impoverished Indian reservations in the state, and those areas have produced excellent runners - last year a kid who ran 8:48/4:05 and broke our state records in the 1600 and 3200 came from one of the reservation schools, not a private prep school.

Heat is actually not as much of a factor as you might think. Because of the desert climate, daily temperature swings can be dramatic, and morning and evening temperatures can be very pleasant. Combine that with low humidity and, in some parts of the state like Flagstaff, altitude, and it can be a pretty darn nice place to run.

Thanks for the insights. I wasn't especially looking for dirt on Tatnall, but I was looking for an explanation.

To the one who commented about the cost of attending an NXN regional meet being the reason that private schools are disproportionately represented, I get that, but the disproportionality of top teams is far greater in the SE region than anywhere else. It's also true that if you simply look at the top teams in the SE during any given season (and before the Nike regional meet even takes place), you're consistently getting a heavy concentration of private schools.

Private schools are advancing to NXN out of other regions (CBA, Bishop Hendricken, Albuquerque Academy, Jesuit, Dowling Catholic, etc.), but the SE tends to be the leading region for private representation--maybe followed closely by NE. That said, the NE is home to what I think would be, by far, the largest concentration of private schools.

It is unfortunate, but probably unavoidable, that the location of the Nike Regionals tends to perpetuate representation by certain teams.

no duh wrote:

From their website-"Brentwood Academy is a co-educational, independent, college preparatory school dedicated to nurturing and challenging the whole person – body, mind, and spirit – to the glory of God".



FYI, all 4 SE qualifiers are PRIVATE. Tatnall has kids from at least 4 different states and the 12 year old who ran 18:35 in the open race will be at Tatnall next year

That's Brentwood Academy. Brentwood High School is the team that qualified. Although apparently that Brentwood might as well be a private school:

"In 2008, the median household income in Brentwood was $129,771, and the median family income was $143,746." That's what 300-400k in other parts of the country?

Thanks for the reply. I did not know that Brophy and Xavier were connected, but it makes sense.

By your estimation, running may well be popular in Arizona, but AZ is the largest population state in the SW region and is consistently getting thumped in the Nike SW regional meet by Utah and Colorado schools. And this is happening despite the fact that the meet is held in Arizona.

The heat is much reduced on the reservation lands in the northern part of the state. For the most part, the successful schools on the reservation are running at altitude and much lower temperatures overall than the Phoenix and Tucson areas. Flagstaff, as you know is at 7000 feet and is the place where everyone in Phoenix goes to cool off in the summer. It's in Phoenix and Tucson, not Flagstaff or the reservation, where a school consistently enjoying a high level of success begs for an explanation.

In all, the clear dominance of Utah and Colorado in the region suggests cross country is much stronger in those states. And taking a comparative look at the state meet results from UT and CO suggests that teams from those states tend to be consistently much deeper than their AZ counterparts, with Xavier being the one exception to that rule. Note also that the Colorado and Utah schools doing the dominating are public schools.

In this sense, at least, Xavier fits the SE mold.

I don't doubt that Xavier is competently coached, but their situation is such that they'll be a lot more attractive to girls of a mind to run distance in the Phoenix area than a similar school would be in the Denver or Salt Lake City area.

I really should not have said the reason is because of finances.

I live in that southeast region and every year you have the same 20 schools showing up. Every year you will get a few schools who have a good squad show up but for the most part its the same schools.

From the DMV, Walter Johnson, Churchill, Quince Orchard, Good Council, Gonzaga, Hereford, Midlothian are at NXN every year. They might have money but they also have good coaches and good programs. Its on the schedule on Day 1.

I am sure its the same 20 or 25 schools that show up every year in every region

no duh wrote:

From their website-"Brentwood Academy is a co-educational, independent, college preparatory school dedicated to nurturing and challenging the whole person – body, mind, and spirit – to the glory of God".



FYI, all 4 SE qualifiers are PRIVATE. Tatnall has kids from at least 4 different states and the 12 year old who ran 18:35 in the open race will be at Tatnall next year

Great job researching.

BA is a private school, from which Andrew Bumbalough graduated. Excellent running program.

Brentwood is a public school just down the road.

Better luck next time creating your thesis and then searching for evidence that will "prove" it.

thanks-I thought that it was a risk worth taking, but I obviously couldn't dupe you. My info was erroneously gathered from some folks at the SE race yesterday and a confusing write-up on Milesplit. Oh well-glad that a public school made it in this sea of Southeastern private school dominance.

The girls team in fourth place was a public school.

Clarity - interesting observations and perhaps you are right. While Arizona has produced some outstanding individual runners, it has been a while since a school other than Xavier has consistently performed in xc. One of the reservation schools was very dominant even on the national stage back in the 70's and 80's, but not a lot since. As far as individuals go, however, there have been some outstanding performers - the same kid I mentioned earlier won both NXN SW last year and also FL West, and holds the course record on the golf course where NXN SW is run.

Track is a different story - one of the Phoenix girls teams, Chandler High School, a public school, is extremely dominant in track, but its strength lies in the sprints, jumps and throws, not in distance. They have an excellent coach and a great feeder program that works with the community kids from an early age.

Agreed with respect to track and field. Arizona track may be second to none in the nation with respect to the population base. I think you can make a solid case that, on a per person basis, Arizona track and field easily rivals southern California, Texas, and Florida.

And I also agree about some outstanding (low elevation) AZ individuals in distance--Walmsley, Cormier, the Bishtons, etc. But, for reasons of heat or some other reason, the great cross country teams do not seem to appear in Arizona (or in the SE) unless there's a drawing card like Xavier to bring the willing parties together in a single program.

In 2022 the Tatnall girls team was only 3 deep with none of them being seniors (in fact, last year at the state meet one of those girls either DNSed or DNFed and the team was so small that they couldn’t appropriately score there.)

fast forward to the 2023 season…

So the 3 key runners are back, and the team got lucky with 2 new girls that moved to Delaware and made this team 5-deep. Good enough to win NXR, which they ended up doing.

Their 6th and 7th were very far back so they didn’t have much room for error.

2 of those top-5 are graduating. The question will be…. Is Tatnall going to fall off, or are they going to get 2 more transfers and become the best in the Southeast again?