Phil Hersh - Bashing Hall (Again)

joho wrote:

inconsistencies - I'll say! wrote:

Actually, nobody with any sense thinks that the Boston times were legit for Mosop and Mutai.

Nice try with the attempt to sneak that one in there, though. Props!

I'm pretty sure Coach Canova thought they were pretty legit. I think he has some sense when it comes to the marathon.

Nope. One should make the distinction between what one actually thinks and what one states for public consumption.

If Coach Canova truly believed that those times were legit then he would have to think that if they ran the race in reverse (as another thread suggested) under those same conditions (wind against them) then they would get the same results. Clearly only the severely mentally disadvantaged and those under the age of 6 could possibly believe this. I'm pretty sure that Coach Canova does not qualify on either count.

Hall ought to vomit twice on Hersch and maybe then Hersch will esteem him like Meb.

inconsistencies - I'll say! wrote:

joho wrote:

I'm pretty sure Coach Canova thought they were pretty legit. I think he has some sense when it comes to the marathon.

Nope. One should make the distinction between what one actually thinks and what one states for public consumption.

If Coach Canova truly believed that those times were legit then he would have to think that if they ran the race in reverse (as another thread suggested) under those same conditions (wind against them) then they would get the same results. Clearly only the severely mentally disadvantaged and those under the age of 6 could possibly believe this. I'm pretty sure that Coach Canova does not qualify on either count.

I guess you know everything dont you? You mad brah? my 7 year old brother believes it. what do you say to him?

inconsistencies - I'll say! wrote:

observer of inconsistencies wrote:

Funny how after Mosop did the 30K WR and G Mutai ran 2:05:06 in NY, everyone now thinks Boston was legit for them, but not for Hall. Funny how the wind must have skipped the top 2 and only pushed Hall that day.

Actually, nobody with any sense thinks that the Boston times were legit for Mosop and Mutai.

Nice try with the attempt to sneak that one in there, though. Props!

You missed the point. I didn't say the times at Boston were record-eligible or equivalent to a flat windless run. The efforts were legit that produced stellar times in the midst of once-in-a-century conditions. Mosop and G Mutai had subsequent races that validated their fitness levels and efforts at Boston regardless what the clock stated on Boylston. Hall had a good run at Chicago, but he didn't hit a home run and so he receives no validation for his fitness level at Boston. Yet the same wind pushed all the runners at Boston. It didn't skip Mutai and Mosop and only push Hall.

gay for inconsistencies wrote:

inconsistencies - I'll say! wrote:

Nope. One should make the distinction between what one actually thinks and what one states for public consumption.

If Coach Canova truly believed that those times were legit then he would have to think that if they ran the race in reverse (as another thread suggested) under those same conditions (wind against them) then they would get the same results. Clearly only the severely mentally disadvantaged and those under the age of 6 could possibly believe this. I'm pretty sure that Coach Canova does not qualify on either count.

I guess you know everything dont you? You mad brah? my 7 year old brother believes it. what do you say to him?

Then I guess you´re about 9 years old.

Phil Hersh is a loser.

hfgdsa wrote:

And Meb has won a major marathon and an Olympic medal. That's a lot more impressive than a faster PR.

Mebs results come from when nobody else runs well, shows up, and/or crazy men jump out and assault the leader of the race. Ryan Hall actually runs fast against fast people in fast races.

Different races, different fields, different courses, different strategies: you can't make the comparison in a road race the way you can on a track. Phil's comment was pointless "you're no Meb" WTF does that mean?! But his thinking behind the questioning of Hall in Chicago makes sense. It is legit to ask the US's current top marathoner why he appears satisfied to compare himself to his place in the US as opposed to the rest of the world. On the other hand, maybe Ryan just meant that it made him confident that he will win the Trials since he is still the fastest American. Hersch: good thinking, bad execution. Then the Tweet - pointless.

stuck with match.com wrote:

I thought the article was well written and he hits on a lot of great points. The fan boys on here love Hall and love to hype him up. The fact is he was only 47th fastest marathoner this year, his Boston time doesn't count because it was downhill and wind aided. 47th! You would think on this site that he is top 5 the way people hype him up. He was yet to be relevant on an international scale, no OG or WC medals, podiums in a major marathon.

alright genius did you exclude all the Boston times for your 47th fastest. Or did you just regurgitate what philly said because it's easier to do that than think for yourself.

His boston time was still impressive, let's see you do it.

The guy is a sports writer, I can not think of a more worthless profession. Guy gets paid to write about others working and achieving great things while he sits on his *** and does nothing? The only thing he ever accomplishes is watching a good race or a good game, wow, congrats to this guy!!! At least a garbage man performs a service to society. What a total joke, maybe Hersch should accomplish just a little bit of something on his own before he goes out and rips one of the country's best marathoners. And this coming from a non Ryan Hall fan.

Fact: Hersh is an excellent and well respected writer in journalismFact: Hersh used facts to support his claimsFact: Ryan Hall gets over hyped by the Ryan Hall Fanboy Club. This needs to be realized.

tam tam tam wrote:

His boston time was still impressive, let's see you do it.

Typical letsrun response, go home.

Hall > Meb's results wrote:

hfgdsa wrote:

And Meb has won a major marathon and an Olympic medal. That's a lot more impressive than a faster PR.

Mebs results come from when nobody else runs well, shows up, and/or crazy men jump out and assault the leader of the race. Ryan Hall actually runs fast against fast people in fast races.

So it's just luck on Mebs part? Lets see besides the Olympic silver medal in 2004 and the NYC win in 2009 he also has podium finishes at Boston in 2006 and New York in 2004 and 2005. That's not luck dude. Hall is certainly a very gifted athlete but he has one podium finish in a major marathon. He's a lot younger than Meb of course so he has time to figure it out and I hope he does.

Fact: Hersh's excellence and respect is a matter of opinion.Fact: Hersh' 47th best claim manipulates the facts. Hall ran the 7th and 47th fastest times in 2011. Fact: Whether you all choose to recognize his Boston Performance is your opionon.Fact: there is no Ryan Hall Fanboy club.

stuck with match.com wrote:

Fact: Hersh is an excellent and well respected writer in journalism

Fact: Hersh used facts to support his claims

Fact: Ryan Hall gets over hyped by the Ryan Hall Fanboy Club. This needs to be realized.

tam tam tam wrote:

His boston time was still impressive, let's see you do it.

Typical letsrun response, go home.

So, a reporter is fianlly getting excited about and promoting actual rivalries in the sport? I think this is great for athletics.

Basketball reporters rip on LeBron James and Kobe Bryant all the time for being extradinary talents who don't always demonstrate a commensurate amount of heart. Hockey reporters like to hype underrated grinder defencemen who will never set scoring records or make allstar teams but who go flat-out every minute.

No rational fan of a sport should take offense to real critical reporting, knee-jerk reactions, etc. There's a lot to disagree with in Hersh's tweets, but THAT'S KIND OF THE POINT, ISN'T IT?

This is a sign of the sport moving from fanboy newsletters to major media - we should be celebrating. Hersh works for the Chicago Tribune, not Flotrack or the Mammoth Lakes Running Shop Newsletter. His JOB is to find the limited rivalries and personalities on display in our sport and report on them. Hall and Keflezighi are the two best marathoners in the US, bar none. They run very different styles - Hall may post faster times, but so far Meb has a better record of putting himself in the race. An aging 2:09 guy going out in at 2:06-pace? Sick! When Hall goes through the half on a hilly course in 1:01 and change, let me know.

Hall went out in 1:01 and change at Boston.

Luke of the Cool Hand wrote:

I haven't done the math, but didn't Ryan Hall have a higher place in Chicago than Meb did in NYC, and timewise, didn't he finish closer to the Chicago winner Mosop than Meb did to the NYC winner Mutai?

I haven't done the math but hasn't Meb finished closer to the GOLD medal in the Olympic marathon than Hall and hasn't Meb won more major city marathons than Hall?

the smartests letsrunner wrote:

They run very different styles - Hall may post faster times, but so far Meb has a better record of putting himself in the race. An aging 2:09 guy going out in at 2:06-pace? Sick! When Hall goes through the half on a hilly course in 1:01 and change, let me know.

Hall's half split at Boston 2011 was 1:01:57 with the lead group.

A respectable writer shouldn't be trying to combat fanboyish sentiments. He should just write a good piece and add context to a performance.

If anyone is being a childish fanboy it is Hersh with these tweets during NYC. A professional wouldn't be digging this up again a month after he got kick back from Hall fans. Obviously his tweets aren't edited and official writing, but his editor needs to seriously question having Phil write on Marathon given how emotional and immature he has been on this stuff.

Now for my mud slinging, Hersh likes to think of himself as worldly. He follows sports that aren't the main American sports. He travels the world and likes to think he has an open mind about different cultures and what athletics mean in different countries. He attempts to see "the story" in an athlete from any country. These are admirable qualities. The problem is, he doesn't like Hall for what Ryan Hall represents to Hersh's ideology. Hersh despises the good Christian boy image that Hall carries with him. Hersh tries to hide is hatred for Hall by appear to be impartial, "Hall was just a fast 'also ran.'" But we all know what is going on. To be totally honest, I am sure the Hall haters on LR have the same ideology clash with Hall, and they let that get in the way of appreciating his undeniably great performances. This is an ugly side of our world, where one's beliefs result in a journalist criticizing his performance.

This is great for athletics, I will definitely agree with you there. But Hershs' tweets indicate that it goes further than just a frustration with Hall appearing to be "complacent" with his times. It's a personal vendetta that has no place in running, especially when you are supposed to be writing on non biased opinion based articles.

I feel like the basketball/hockey reporters/football reporters have a stronger right to criticize and critique athletes than someone like Hersh. Hersh did not pay his dues in running like other veterans.

I think a lot of this goes further than just being a fanboy, the link above from "Another Slow Guy" hits it spot on with how American Distance running is evolving, but we still are challenging like we thought we would be. Here is the link again. It's definitely a good read and helps shed light on Ryan Hall and American Distance running:

Hall and Meb are two of the greatest marathoners that we have to contend for anything. If you want to label me as a fanboy because I think our greatest chances of medaling or contending on an international stage are these two guys on ANY GIVEN DAY. Then by all means do.