5x200m at 95-97% effort with full recovery during the base period

20 minute warm-up

5 minutes active stretch

jogging into 8 to 12 x100m with 300m easy jog rest

10-15 minute cool down

stretch stretch stretch

double back a light 30 to 45 minutes

puts you at around 20k for the day

every monday

Here's a post I made in a similar thread a while ago:

For the record with my "strides" I built up from 4x100m to 2 sets of 5x150m. Fastest I ever went was maybe 90-95%? 200m is darn close to NOT being alactic so I like to err on the side of ~150m, but I also used to do two sets of 4x200m strides with ~200m very slow jog between reps and 5-6min walk/jog between sets. More than anything else I think it's important to keep the effort on your strides relaxed and not so much try to run HARD on them.

Why don't you do something like read Daniels Running Formula, and follow one of his plans? He suggests an initial phase for base training, and then a next phase of "Initial Quality", which should improve your 400m speed, in a structured way.

Otherwise, doing the 200m reps when you are fresh seems like a good idea.

Doing 40-60 minutes of moderate pace training on the same day seems like a less good idea.

Finally, running 1500m in 3:30 doesn't require a speed faster than 56 seconds every 400m. Maybe you should talk about that some more, whether you want to or not, to find out what you really need.

i'd just do:

20 min easy to the track

3-4 strides

do your 200s

30-40 min cool down

i've come to the same realization lately, that is my basic speed is capping my potential at longer (1500K-10K) distances, so i've work a lot on improving my basic speed and explosiveness. two things that have worked for me:

1) mixing up the basic speedwork each week. doing one intense workout a week, try a cycle like:

week 1: 10x60

week 2: 8x100

week 3: 2x100, 4x150, 2x200

week 4: 2x200, 3x300, 2x200

2) start lifting! twice a week, squats and cleans are the focus of my program.

doing these things have taken me from 62 to 55 in the 400m, 1500 to 1430 in the 5k.

I like this.

Its the offseason, if you want speed OP try an easy 10x50 on your local track.

Obviously all out.

Next progress to 10x100 or 5x200, obviously all out as well.

While the Clyde Hart method of long to short is one way of training for the 400m, a lot of other coaches (especially those dealing with slower sprinters) find that a short to long program works very well.

These programs start with acceleration work and short alactic sprints at the start of the season and later in the year move towards more speed endurance based work.

An example workout might be:

dynamic warmup of mobility and drills

3 x 3 x fly 20 - 30m (use a standing start and a 30m lead-in)

Follow this workout with a maximum strength gym session and you have a full day of training.

You could do this on a rest day from your aerobic running leaving six days in the week to keep your mileage up.

Peter

I have been doing 6x200s once a week pretty quick(probably about 95%) after a 40 minute run just to add in a way to gain speed since I dont have as much as I would like. I have not thought about it, but would running them after a 40 minute run be better since its more like the end of a race where you need to kick after using mostly aerobic system(depending on how the race is run, obviously) You dont really need to run them fresh becaus they shouldnt be that hard

OP, I agree with you (and disagree with the poster above): any of this speed-development work, which involves a large component of neuromuscular training, SHOULD be done when you're as fresh as possible (i.e. *after* an adequate warmup, which should include a few gradual accelerations to loosen up; but *before* any aerobic-conditioning work).

Physical skills, even those that will have to be used in conditions of fatigue, are best *learned* when one is fresh. [This is why, if you suck at shooting free throws, you should work on correcting your technique at the beginning of basketball practice, not at the end--even though the free throws at the end of a game could be the most critical.]

You're right, 200s won't be completely alactic; but as long as you're really taking "complete" recovery (which could be several minutes) between them, you should be fine--they would not bring you to a premature peak. (I admit I'm kinda partial to the 100s or 150s that others have mentioned, just because there's less chance of fatigue *within* a repetition--fatigue can mess with your technique.)

A tip: if you're running these by effort (95-97%, as you say), do NOT time them. Just focus on the technique and *feel* of running fast, not running "hard."

As for "interfering with aerobic development," doing these one day a week should have minimal effect there. If you're really concerned, however, you could do these as the first of two sessions that day (separated by several hours), with the second session being a bit of easy aerobic running.

No no no. 200m reps are too long for what you're trying to acheive and don't belong in base building. Do 60-100m reps at 400m-800m pace. You'll be able to run faster, get in more volume of fast running, and it won't screw up your aerobic fitness at all.

Something I do, granted I'm a 48-49 second 400 guy, is do anywhere from 6-8 200's but I do them acceleration style. For example if I'm running 28 I would run 15 seconds the first 100 and 13 seconds the second 100. This way you aren't running an all out 200 meter dash, but you are still getting the benefits of touching top speed. I've found it's a great way to focus on mechanics and technique but not be completely rigged up after a few of them. Here is my routine:

Warm up 15-20 minutes

Dynamic Stretching for about 5-10 minutes, get in a few strides

8x200 jog 200 meters or so for recovery

Cool down 15-20 minutes

More stretching

Hey I did these sprints all winter and they helped me to bust my marathon time.

My first marathon was only 7:14, and I took 3 minutes off it with doing these sprints all winter! They work!

For top-end speed development, I used to really like doing 5-6 x 40-50m all-out w/ 3-4 minutes slow jogging recovery. I did this a little more than once a week for 4 or 5 weeks during my base building phase, and it improved my top-end speed, which trickled up to all events up to the 5000m (the longest event I was racing at that time).

Doing some fast 200s isn't a bad idea, either, but I prefer the short, all-out sprints because they work on absolute top-end speed, whereas the 200s work more on efficiency while running fast (which is easier to do throughout a training block, in my opinion).

Have any of you who do 50m flys actually gotten any FASTER? I used to do them regularly but it wasn't until I did longer, slower stuff (i.e. relaxed 150s and 200s at 3k-800 pace) that I actually got FASTER.

What do you mean by faster? By doing these short fly sprints, I have dramatically improved my top speed so I am a lot quicker. However, I doubt my 5K time is any better because of them.

I am currently in a base training phase and as the season gets closer, the plan I am following will have the sprints become longer speed endurance type sessions (150-300m).

The reasoning behind doing the maximum sprinting speed early in the season is so that once I start doing the longer sprints, I will be able to more comfortably run at a higher speed. As you say, doing the 150-200s is where the improvement will come from.

Thanks a lot for your advices. The reason why I was thinking about 200s which some of you consider as too long is that I've been doing fast 80m strides all my "running career"(usually about 25-30 repetitions with just jog back as a recovery so maybe they were not that fast) and need a new stimulus. I've never been consistently doing all-out 50m (flat) sprints though. Just Canova type hill sprints but they have other purpose I guess. Anyway, I still think I rather need speed endurance than top-end speed.

seeking speed and wisdom wrote:

My idea is the in the title mentioned 200's at 95-97% effort with complete recovery. I know it wouldn't be a completely alactic training so I'm not sure whether it won't interfere with mainly aerobic running during the base period.

Lactate doesn't interfere with anything, it's the normal conversion of glucose and glycogen into a transportable molecule that is directed towards sites of oxidation.

As for running fast 200's and worrying if it might or might not harm your 'aerobic' developmen, of course it won't, it's a normal part of supporting your other paces which are more aerobic. Which is the conclusion you have already reached anyway, so ignore the sayers of pseudoscience who claim otherwise.

F.Y.I. wrote:

OP, I agree with you (and disagree with the poster above): any of this speed-development work, which involves a large component of neuromuscular training, SHOULD be done when you're as fresh as possible (i.e. *after* an adequate warmup, which should include a few gradual accelerations to loosen up; but *before* any aerobic-conditioning work).

Physical skills, even those that will have to be used in conditions of fatigue, are best *learned* when one is fresh. [This is why, if you suck at shooting free throws, you should work on correcting your technique at the beginning of basketball practice, not at the end--even though the free throws at the end of a game could be the most critical.]

And I disagree with YOU. Because a good warm-up will improve neuromuscular coordination. And by the way, ALL training is neuromusclar training. Also, the poster before you points out correctly, that the OP needs this speed at the end of the race.

His problem isn't running 28 seconds for 200's, it's running that pace when tired.

When you studied motor learning in grad school, did you discuss different motor unit recruitment patterns during various race distances? No, because that's something we can only learn from actual running.

And the faster you need to run, the more warm up you need.