How Good was Jim Ryun at XC?

In Jim Ryan's day the cinder tracks were so bad there was no difference between XC and Track.

Malmo had an excellent post in January about all of Ryun's running accomplishments from ages 15-19, collected from other sources.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3884996

As for his XC highlights, the following are mentioned:

1963-64 Junior year 16 years old

- Undefeated in cross country

- 4 mile AAU XC meet against college runners he finished 3rd

Nothing mentioned about senior year XC. Anyone know?

Race detective wrote:

Nothing mentioned about senior year XC. Anyone know?

If I accurately recall "The Jim Ryun Story," he missed the first part of his senior cross season (he was in Tokyo--duh), immediately rejoined the team when he got back from the Olympics, and went undefeated, breaking the course record at the State meet (previously held by a Haskell Institute runner named Mills).

Bear in mind that the longest standard event in track (in most States) at that time was the mile, and that cross-country was contested over two-mile courses. There were no national-level high school cross-country meets at the time .

how does that work? wrote:

Race detective wrote:

As for his XC highlights, the following are mentioned:

1963-64 Junior year 16 years old

- Undefeated in cross country

- 4 mile AAU XC meet against college runners he finished 3rd

Not trying to be argumentative, but how was he undefeated in XC if he finished third in a race?

It's not that tough. I presume he was undefeated in HS competition--not a trivial thing. The AAU meet was obviously an "open" competition.

Ryun was obviously very good in X-C, but he just as obviously was not as good as he was on the track. His natural range was from the half mile to 2 miles. Anything much beyond that was a bit of a stretch.

I think Gene Mclain beat him one race, Ryun's junior year.

It was a very tough course, uphill from the 1.5 mile to the finish.

McClain later won the 1964 Golden West Invitational in 4:10.

J.R. wrote:

I think Gene Mclain beat him one race, Ryun's junior year.

It was a very tough course, uphill from the 1.5 mile to the finish.

McClain later won the 1964 Golden West Invitational in 4:10.

Ryun's junior year in X-C would have been the fall of 1963.

J.R. wrote:

I think Gene Mclain beat him one race, Ryun's junior year.

It was a very tough course, uphill from the 1.5 mile to the finish.

McClain later won the 1964 Golden West Invitational in 4:10.

old tymer wrote:

Ryun's junior year in X-C would have been the fall of 1963.

Yes, the fall '63 cross country season.

I think it was Oct 17, 1963 at the Emporia Invitational.

Jim Ryun's high school career.

- 3:39.0 4th at AAU 1500m

- 3:40.4 2nd US/USSR dual meet

- 3:41.6 1st US/Germany

- 3:41.9 3rd LA Olympic Trials

- 3:44.4 4th Tokyo heats

- 3:46.1 4th NY Randalls Island OT

- 3:49.9 1st US/Poland dual meet

- 3:55.3 1st San Diego American Record, defeats Snell

- 3:56.8 Modesto 3rd behind Snell and Grelle

- 3:58.3 State meet win, first and only sub 4:00 in all hs competition

- 3:59.0 8th in Compton, first ime that 8 runner had beoken 4:00 in the same race, and the first time a hs kid broke 4:00.

- 4:01.7 3rd in Modesto behind Burleson and O'Hara

- 4:04.3 Golden West HS 1st

- 4:06.4 wins state meet in national hs record time.

- 4:07.8 USTFF 6th to college kids

- 4:08.2 MVAAU loses to college runner, doubles back with 1:54.5 880 (5th)

- 9:04 Golden West HS 1st

- 9:06.5 in KS allcomers

Jayhawk Walk wrote:

- 3:58.3 State meet win, first and only sub 4:00 in all hs competition

What did Lukas do?

chumba wrote:

Jayhawk Walk wrote:

- 3:58.3 State meet win, first and only sub 4:00 in all hs competition

What did Lukas do?

Ran on a synthetic track with hot competition and still ran about a second and a half slower than Ryun in a HS race.

All kidding aside, do not take anything away from what Lucas did. His splits show that in good weather with a sensible pace, he could have run a lot faster. He's a great runner. A super runner.

From the TAFNews site: Verzbicas (in yards) is 59.1, 64.2 [2:03.3], 58.7 [3:02.0], 57.7

Not Ryunesque, but LV is more of a 5k type. Ryun ran a 1:47.7 880 relay leg in HS - with an 80 yard lead at the start of his leg. But a HS Ryun wouldn't have been able to hang with Lucas in a 2 mile. Ryun won XC titles, but he really wasn't a great XC runner. Too big among other things. Watch "America's Greatest Miler" if you have a chance. He looks like a tank out there compared to the other runners in a Cross race. Reminds me of Paul McMullin.

According to the Jim Ryun story he trained very hard through the cross country season and just ran the races with what he had left. Timmons was focusing his training on the mile even during the fall. I know he has the course record at Wamego which is probably the hardest course in the state and it was 9:08.

I'm curious what you mean by "looks like a tank"? I'm guessing you don't mean that in the good sense ahah. I have that documentary and he had a long stride that was good for the track but I think hurt him in cross? Is that what you meant?

To answer the original poster's question - Ryun never particularly enjoyed XC but he felt the over distance training helped him in preparation for the track season ahead. He was very good in high school, but I think mostly because the distance was 2 miles. In college he felt terrible running the 6 mile distance and he never really liked hills

Ryun was really a pure 800m runner who trained up for the mile. Most of his training consisted of large volumes of high quality intervals and XC was almost viewed as off season training. Ryun was dominant in XC and probably could have been even better, but it was not his focus. He did run a 9 flat 2-mile as a Jr in H.S. This may not sound too impressive in this day and age, but I think it was the H.S. record and was as good as what the top NCAA athletes were running at that time. The following year, Lindgren ran a much faster 2-mile (8:40), which was probably close to the world record at that time. Ryun trained for XC in collge and was a very good NCAA XC runner.

TrackCoach wrote:Ryun trained for XC in collge and was a very good NCAA XC runner.

What???

I've gotta laugh. The minor fact that Ryun NEVER ran the NCAA X-C race aside, he had a truly stellar NCAA X-C career!

Race detective wrote:

There were no national-level high school cross-country meets at the time .

Hmmm, ever heard of NXN? Footlocker? Kinney? You dillweed.

Wait, wait, wait, hold on. Footlocker was back in the 60's? NXN was back in the 60's? I thought Nike was created in the 70's, so it amazes me that they had a Nike XC nationals a decade before...or did you my sir "yew the jew" not realize we were talking about Ryun in the 60's? Since, Race Detective said "at the time".