How did he get to 1:44? What were his previous times by year?
Also what was David Rudisha's first 800m time?
Just curious about the progressions of these two and much more, but I'm lazy right now.
How did he get to 1:44? What were his previous times by year?
Also what was David Rudisha's first 800m time?
Just curious about the progressions of these two and much more, but I'm lazy right now.
Anybody? I want to know this because I'm doing a research paper on "Fast-short term runners" for english. What did ryun run the 800 in high school from the start?
One of the best books ever for the track geek:
"the Jim Ryun story". It will have all of that for you. Not sure what your criteria of "short term" is, but remember that Ryun was on 3 Olympic teams. He was no flash in the pan, if that's what your paper is attempting to insinuate.
If runners don't understand what the heck your topic means then how the heck is your English teacher going to know? Pick another topic.
A kid who run 3:55 mile the way Ryun ran it is going to be capable of 1:46-1:47 800m whether he races 800m regularly or not. You will have trouble finding 800m/880y bests for him because he focused on the mile. No US high school kid is gonna come close to 3:53 mile without a decent shot at the high school 800m record.
The reason you see what seems a surprising progression for Rudisha is that he did not really focus on the 800m until he was already capable of 45+/1:44 800m.
Biggest difference between the two is 200m speed. Rudisha with a running start hits 21. Ryun could only manage 21+ or so.
For a middle distance runner, the 800m is proportional to the 200m speed much the same way the 1600m is proportional to the 400m speed.
From "Jim Ryun, Master of the Mile"
15 year old sophomore
- 5:38 mile time trial
- 11:51 2 mile XC first time trial
- 11:23 4th is first JV race
- won the next JV race
- 10:36 in first varsity race, eventually becoming Wichita East's top runner
- 6th at State meet, leading the team to victory.
- 4:40 self-timed time trial during the winter of his sophomore year
- 4:32.2 loses his first mile race by 0.2 to defending State champ Charles Harper
- 4:26.5 down 15 meters with 100 to go, Ryun digs deep and finds that kick of his, winning his first mile over Harper.
- 4:21.7 leads from gun to tape for win #2
- 4:21.3 wins again, runs first 880, a leg of winning 2mi relay team
age 16
- wins another mile
- 4:16.2 wins state meet
- 4:08.2 MVAAU loses to college runner, doubles back with 1:54.5 880 (5th)
- 1:53.6 5th again, behind four college kids
- 4:07.8 USTFF 6th to college kids
during the Summer he ran 5 miles at 5:30am. The harder he worked, the more talented he became. Will YOU run 5 miles at 5:30 am this Summer? Will you?
junior year cross country he was undefeated
- 4 mile AAU XC meet against college runners he finished 3rd
- indoor meet at Cow Palace (SF) Lindgren in race. Ryun stubles off track then finishes well back in 9:22.6
- 4:06.4 wins state meet in national hs record time.
- 4:01.7 3rd in Modesto behind Burleson and O'Hara
- 3:59.0 8th in Compton, first ime that 8 runner had beoken 4:00 in the same race, and the first time a hs kid broke 4:00.
- 1:50.3 5th in open competition
- 9:06.5 in KS allcomers
- 3:39.0 4th at AAU 1500m
- 3:46.1 4th NY Randalls Island OT
- 3:41.9 3rd LA Olympic Trials
- 3:44.4 4th Tokyo heats
- 3:55 DFL Tokyo semi
senior year
- 3:58.3 State meet win, first and only sub 4:00 in all hs competition
- 3:56.8 Modesto 3rd behind Snell and Grelle
- 4:04.3 Golden West HS 1st
- 9:04 Golden West HS 1st
- 3:55.3 1st San Diego American Record, defeats Snell
- 3:40.4 2nd US/USSR dual meet
- 3:49.9 1st US/Poland dual meet
- 3:41.6 1st US/Germany
malmo wrote:
- indoor meet at Cow Palace (SF) Lindgren in race. Ryun stubles off track then finishes well back in 9:22.6
Was that the one where Lindgren went 8:40.0?
- 4:06.4 wins state meet in national hs record time.
Was that a national record? Tom Sullivan went 4:03.5 in 1961. When did Lindgren run his 4:01.5? Or is this another of those cases of seventeen different sets of national hs records?
Jim Ryun was alerted that his high school record had been broken by lindgren just before he ran 3:59.0 to take back the record.
Lindgren did not break 4:06 for the mile until the weekend of 8/13/64 in Kingston Jamaica. On that weekend Gerry ran a mile in 4:01.5 and 13:17 for three miles.
Ryun took the high school mile record from 4:03.5 to 3:59 placing 8th in a race during which he was knocked off the track on the second lap, lost about a second and then showed what guts he had by catching up. Those two races race were in Compton, California, on June 5, 1964 about half an hour after Lindgren ran his American Junior 5K record of 13:44. (His last lap was 60.5)
Updated progression summary. Nice to see the kid who gets up at 5:30 every day for his morning run explores his full potential. I wonder how many Ryun are out there who never did try? I know that the best high school runner I'd ever seen (before Webb) was on my high school team. His name was George Brooks. If we could only get him to run every day I truly believe he'd have broken 4:00. How many George Brooks' are there?
From "Jim Ryun, Master of the Mile"
1962-63 15 year old sophomore
- 5:38 mile time trial
- 11:51 2 mile XC first time trial
- 11:23 4th is first JV race
- won the next JV race
- 10:36 in first varsity race, eventually becoming Wichita East's top runner
- 6th at State meet, leading the team to victory.
- 4:40 self-timed time trial during the winter of his sophomore year
- 4:32.2 loses his first mile race by 0.2 to defending State champ Charles Harper
- 4:26.5 down 15 meters with 100 to go, Ryun digs deep and finds that kick of his, winning his first mile over Harper.
- 4:21.7 leads from gun to tape for win #2
- 4:21.3 wins again, runs first 880, a leg of winning 2mi relay team
age 16
- wins another mile
- 4:16.2 wins state meet
- 4:08.2 MVAAU loses to college runner, doubles back with 1:54.5 880 (5th)
- 1:53.6 5th again, behind four college kids
- 4:07.8 USTFF 6th to college kids
during the Summer he ran 5 miles every day at 5:30am. The harder he worked, the more talented he became. Will YOU run 5 miles at 5:30 am this Summer? Will you?
1963-64 Junior year 16 years old
- Undefeated in cross country
- 4 mile AAU XC meet against college runners he finished 3rd
- indoor meet at Cow Palace (SF) Lindgren in race. Ryun stumbles off track then finishes well back in 9:22.6
age 17
- 4:06.4 wins state meet in national hs record time.
- 4:01.7 3rd in Modesto behind Burleson and O'Hara
- 3:59.0 8th in Compton, first ime that 8 runner had broken 4:00 in the same race, and the first time a hs kid broke 4:00.
- 1:50.3 5th in open competition
- 9:06.5 in KS allcomers
- 3:39.0 4th at AAU 1500m
- 3:46.1 4th NY Randalls Island OT
- 3:41.9 3rd LA Olympic Trials
- 3:44.4 4th Tokyo heats
- 3:55 DFL Tokyo semi
1964-65 senior year 17 years old
- 4:07.2 State Indoor meet
- 4:04.4 Wichita East Invite
- 4:02.0 Hutchichson Invite
age 18
- 3:58.3 State meet win, first and only sub 4:00 in all hs competition
- 3:58.1 1st California Relays
- 3:56.8 Modesto 3rd behind Snell and Grelle
- 4:04.3 Golden West HS 1st
- 9:04 Golden West HS 1st
- 3:55.3 1st San Diego American Record, defeats Snell
- 3:40.4 2nd US/USSR dual meet
- 3:49.9 1st US/Poland dual meet
- 3:41.6 1st US/Germany
1965-66 Freshman college 18 years old
- 3:42.7 1st Sugar Bowl
- 4:02.2 1st Millrose Games
- 4:03.9 1st Texas Relays
- 8:47.4 1st two mile SW Relays
- 3:58 4x1 mile Emporia Relays, ¾ of DMR, 47.6 on 4x440
- 3:59 DMR Kansas Relays
- 3:55.8 Kansas Relays
age 19
- 8:25.2 Los Angeles American Record, beats Grelle and Keino
- 3:53.7 Compton Relays 0.1 short of Jazy’s WR
- 1:44.9 World Record Terre Haute, IN
- 4:02.8 47.8 relay
- 3:58.6 AAU
- 3:51.3 World Record Berkeley
sources:
1) "Jim Ryun, Master of the Mile"
2)
My whole point in starting this thread was to find people that starting running at a late age and how they quickly improved, but never improved after their brilliant performance. Is it lost of motivation? (Will David Rudisha improve after his performances at such a young age like Cruz did. Is their such a thing where you seek your pursuit of happiness to soon?
Anyways, thanks Malmo for those times on Ryun, but the 530 morning runs were they fast for him?
When did Rudisha started running the 800? what was his progression?
Crazy Progressions wrote:
My whole point in starting this thread was to find people that starting running at a late age and how they quickly improved, but never improved after their brilliant performance. Is it lost of motivation? (Will David Rudisha improve after his performances at such a young age like Cruz did. Is their such a thing where you seek your pursuit of happiness to soon?
Anyways, thanks Malmo for those times on Ryun, but the 530 morning runs were they fast for him?
I cannot believe the disconnect there. Your whole point is to find people who improved to the point of brilliance, but never improved on top of that brilliance? Is that right? Did you even think about what you just said? Once you get to the top, there is nowhere else to go. Simple. In Ryun's case, once you graduated from college there was no such thing as 'pro running' so you have to make decisions. Can you imagine how fast Ryun would have been running had he been born in 1987 as opposed to 1947? Or he might have run slower, since the 90s version of Coach Timmons probably would had him on an idiotic running formula program and only raced him four times a year.
Dude, 5:30 isn't the pace, it was FIVE-THIRTY in the morning.
I saw Jim Ryun at the Kansas Relays his junior year in high school. l he anchored the sprint medley in 1:47 and change.
Remember when you talk about him and Rudisha that Ryun was running on a cinder track that had dozens and dozens of races run on it in several divisions: high school, Jr. College, College, University. Distance medley, 4 mile relay, sprint medley, 2 mile relay, mile relay and the open events. the inside lane was quite chewed up. we wore almost 1" spikes.
When the beautiful composition tracks came out after the '68 Olympics, 880 times dropped about 2-3 seconds across the board.
I ran against Ryun several times and he was the greatest I ever saw and had the best kick I have ever seen. He ran a solo 3:51.1 on a cinder track for a world record in Bakersfield in 1967. He ran 24.0 the last 220. No rabbit. John Walker ran 3:49 in 1975.
When he ran 1:44.9 his freshman year, he ran a preliminary race 2 hours before and they only had about 1:20-1:21 at the 660. His last 220 was incredible. He could have gone of for 1000 meters he was so fresh at the end. He ran 3:59 on a 12 lap board track at the Big 8 indoor championships in 1967. He ran 1:48 for a world indoor record on a 220 dirt track at KU, 1967. There was no one like him in him prime.
age 17
- 1:50.3 5th in open competition*
* Went under the national record for 880y, BUT he was only 2nd HS runner to finish that event. The 1st runner, Bob Hose, set the NR in that race, and he was the first to run sub 1:50.
"The last time we saw Olympic veteran Jerry Siebert was three weeks ago when Morgan Groth outran him on the anchor leg of the sprint medley. Apparently he has made good use of that time. His 1:47.5 880 is the fastest in the world and provides him with a wide margin over a good field. Ted Nelson and Greg Pelster take the runner up spots both in 1:49.1. Wait a minute, who is that high school kid in fourth? Even though Jim Ryun is in the race, he isn't that kid. It is Bob Hose of San Diego Madison who is right on the veterans' heels in 1:49.2, a national HS record bettering the 1:50.4 set only last month by Larry Kelley of Maine East High in Illinois. Versatile Ron Whitney holds off Ryun, 1:49.6 to 1:50.3."
From:
http://onceuponatimeinthevest.blogspot.com/2013/12/june-1964.html
(You need search some of the text in the above blog to find the paragraph quoted above.)
Rudisha ran 1:50 in a time trial on a dirt track his first time over the distance. I swear I saw it on youtube once but am unable to locate it now.
He was training for the decathlon prior to that but struggled with the pole vault.
From Running Times Magazine.. LEAVING HOME
When O'Connell first spotted Rudisha, he was a lanky, 14-year-old decathlete who excelled at sprinting events but struggled with the pole vault. His specialty was the 400m -- his father, Daniel Rudisha, had once been Kenya's greatest quarter-miler, and the young Rudisha had inherited his speed. O'Connell was more impressed by his relaxed stride, however, and suggested he try the 800m. In his first attempt, on a rutted, red-dirt track in the village of Iten -- at 7,900 feet -- he ran 1:49.
His future agent, James Templeton, watched that race with another of his athletes, Japheth Kimutai. After the race, Kimutai said to him, "We've found our guy."
Jim Metcalf wrote:
I saw Jim Ryun at the Kansas Relays his junior year in high school. l he anchored the sprint medley in 1:47 and change.
Remember when you talk about him and Rudisha that Ryun was running on a cinder track that had dozens and dozens of races run on it in several divisions: high school, Jr. College, College, University. Distance medley, 4 mile relay, sprint medley, 2 mile relay, mile relay and the open events. the inside lane was quite chewed up. we wore almost 1" spikes.
When the beautiful composition tracks came out after the '68 Olympics, 880 times dropped about 2-3 seconds across the board.
I ran against Ryun several times and he was the greatest I ever saw and had the best kick I have ever seen. He ran a solo 3:51.1 on a cinder track for a world record in Bakersfield in 1967. He ran 24.0 the last 220. No rabbit. John Walker ran 3:49 in 1975.
.
BS!
Ryun never ran a 24.0 last 200 in his 3:51.1 WR mile. That's a blatant lie.
Bennetta wrote:
BS!
Ryun never ran a 24.0 last 200 in his 3:51.1 WR mile. That's a blatant lie.
Bingo! You're correct.