Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 6/5

Goal Race: Chicago

Goal Time: 2:26

Next Race: Run for the Pies 5k (6/11)

marmite - Great 10k! Your splits look pretty even to me, and believe me I know how tough it is to push yourself in a race where you're running solo. Regardless, you keep improving every single week, and there's something to be said about progression and consistency. Mo Farah is really breaking through and proving to be one of the worlds best recently. Looking forward to seeing what the future holds for him...and Rupp, but he didn't even run (and that's a completely different conversation).

samblackbones - I know it wasn't your goal, but you can't be disappointed with a 10 minute PR. Sometimes the marathon is about perserverance and you really showed that by gutting out the last 10 miles. Every marathon is a learning experience, although it's only useful if you apply that knowledge to the next one. For now, enjoy some down time and some rest! Congrats, and great report, BTW...I enjoyed reading it.

BostonBound - Good week...I'm experimenting with some "time on my feet" runs this cycle as well. I have at least 2 over distance runs planned right now, just because I've never run for over 3 hours before and would like to try it out. If your legs felt good during the 25 miles @ 6:58 pace, I should hope that sub-2:50 wouldn't be a problem, even for a non-goal marathon.

stamford - Awesome 1500 dude! Congrats on the PR! Like I said before, you've really made some huge strides in the past couple of months. Your consistency is incredible from the 1500 to the half marathon. I agree that mileage works, but as I've said before, consistency is the key.

As for me, well, I had a bit of a setback this week. After my race last weekend...my R soleus has been giving me some trouble, and it finally started to really bother me after my Friday morning run. I decided to be extra cautious and take a few days off rather than just wait and see. My mileage took a bit of a hit, but it was essentially a non-issue this morning, so I think I averted anything major. I've got another 5k this weekend, so hopefully it doesn't flare up again.

M: am - 10 easy (7:21) / pm - 6 easy (7:35)

Tu: am - 12 easy (7:00) / pm - 6 easy (7:39)

W: am - 10 easy (7:14) / pm - 6 easy (7:35)

Th: am - 10 progression...first 2 @ 8:00, then went from 7:30 pace down to 5:18 (6:35 avg) / pm - 6 easy (7:48)

F: 14 easy (6:44)

Sa: OFF

Su: OFF

Weekly Total - 80 miles

YTD - 1,686 miles

Goal: Mid October Thon

Time: ~ 2:25

M: 65 mn

T: 8 x (3:10 on / 1:00 off) + (15 mn wu/ 15 cd)

W: 65 mn

T: 75 mn + Strides

F: 65 mn

S: 22 mm uptempo + 5 min easy + 22 min uptempo + (15 mn wu/ 15 cd)

S: 45 mn

~ 73 miles

Took it easy on Sunday still very early. Last October I ran Baystate and was thinking of doing it again. Its a great marathon, just a little more of drive for me then I'd like. I ran on the boardwalk at Atlatinc City yesterday which was cool for like 40 mins, but I wouldn't want to run that marathon.

The real question is whether I'll have to sign up for my fall marathon before I have sign up for Boston. lol.

I haven't posted here for a while so here is a brief summary of my recent life. Draw your own conclusions!

1 December to 15 December: A lot of running and a lot of partying with alcohol. Felt great.

15 December to 25 December: Slightly decreased levels of running and slightly increased levels of partying and alcohol etc. Felt not so good. Took some painkillers

26 December to 9 January: Mostly unable to get out of bed, although a couple of times I did get to the couch. Felt awful with collosal fatigue and nausea and brain fog and muscle pain. Took a lot of painkillers.

10 January: Felt a little better. Went to the office for the first time for a while. Continued to feel better in the evening and celebrated with a couple of beers and sent off my entry to London marathon.

11 January to 18 January: Felt quite a bit better, celebrated with an 80 mile week and several alcoholic drinks, staying up all night with friends etc. Continued going to the office etc.

19 January to 22 January: Felt quite a lot worse, general brain fog and sore muscles again. Gradually decreased ability to do any running. Felt a bit depressed and had a few drinks etc to revive my spirits. Continued going to the office and churning out e-mails and advising clients etc. Took a lot of painkillers.

23 January: Collapsed towards the end of my long run. Somehow walked final four miles home. Felt really bad.

24 January to 28 January: "worked" from home all week. Was probably professionally negligent, but so far nobody seems to have complained. Took painkillers every three hours. Tried to drink a lot of OJ. Extremely bad headaches and sore muscles and a weird brain fog.

29 January: Saw some doctors and got some tests for pretty much everything.

30 January to 20 February: Started going back to the office as symptoms became manageable, but continued to take painkillers every three hours. Got cabs to and from the office. Cancelled every non-essential meeting. Cancelled every social engagement apart from my grandmother's birthday. Got pretty depressed. Watched my friends and training partners race a couple of times. Got results of blood tests, which were nomal apart from low vitamin D. (London in the Winter: go figure.) Unable to sleep more than 3 or 4 hours a night. Wrote some curses in my training diary.

21 February to 28 February: Felt a bit better. Ran three times and tried to rest a lot too. Actually did some work in the office for once. Felt a bit more cheerful. Did a 10km in under 38 mins, it felt okay.

1 March to 15 April: Had a bad relapse. Then a brief remission. Then more repeats of this cycle. Didn't drink any alcohol etc and just watched a lot of tv. Didn't do any running. Considered becoming religious. Went to the office regularly and actually became a bit more conscientious with my career. Got through a packet of painkillers each day. Saw several more doctors, one of whom diagnosed me with chronic fatigue syndrome. Was informed that the only cure was cognitive behavioural therapy. Does this mean I am mental? (In a sense I'd rather there was something mentally wrong with me than physically. If my only problems are mental then I can probably live a normal life.)

16 April: Day before the London marathon. Felt a little better and jogged 3 miles.

17 April: Watched an incredible race at the London marathon. Mary Keitany is one speedy lady! There is actually no point feeling sorry for myself. Running isn't that important, and even my level of ill-health (which is surely my own fault anyway) is nothing compared to the suffering of many other humans!

18 April to 29 May: Little by little, I started to get better and start training again. I don't have time to write all the details of this recovery, there were lots of relapses but each one seemed shorter and less severe. Stopped taking pain-killers. Started gradually going seeing friends again. Still didn't have any alcohol. Gradually increased levels of training.

Monday 30 May to Sunday 5 June: I'm recovered! I might get a relapse or two again if I don't take proper care of myself but I think I can handle it. Mo Farah's 10,000m at Pre was inspiring. I got lucky with Olympic tickets. Actually did a pretty good training week, with 63 miles. I'm in the process of implementing a few life-style changes.

Yesterday and today: I think I might enter a marathon.

Everyone else seems to have been having good training which is great!

Liberty,

I'm considering Baystate this fall in hopes of running a marathon PR. I ran it once before and it was fast. If you didn't already know, this year Baystate is NOT part of the New England Grand Prix Series as it was last year. That means there will be more like 15-20people under 3hrs instead on 100. It will be a much less competative race and you would probably easily win in 2:25. Many of the same people that ran Baystate last year will be running the Cape Cod marathon this year since that is the GP event.

Some Coked Up Brit - I still love typing that name. First of all, welcome back! Second of all, that's quite a synopsis of your last 6 months. I'm certainly no doctor, but I think your "symptoms" (without knowing anything else about you) point towards overtraining in my opinion. If for no other reason than my own personal experience. Overtraining is a combination of many things in life, but the main factors seem to be, running too much (or not recovering enough...sleep), stress at work/home, and general lack of motivation....all of which you noted in your summary. I've been through what I assumed was overtraining, and it sounds awful similar to what you went through. The tricky thing about overtraining is that it's very difficult to quantify, and thus, find a remedy. It looks like you're on the mend now, and having a goal race in the future will certainly help that. I'm glad to see that you're feeling better and appear to be fully recovered.

Hey all,

I stumbled upon an interesting article the other day about "workouts to improve lactate clearing rates" and I thought some people might be interested -- particularly the ones who do the Canova marathon workouts.

The example workouts given to prepare for a half-marathon appear like they would be perfect to throw in before starting a 8-10wk marathon specific phase.

Here are the workouts and the link to the article:

http://www.runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=22359&PageNum=1

10 WEEKS TO GO: 6 miles alternating 400m at HM +5 seconds/mile with 1200m at HM +40 seconds/mile

8 WEEKS TO GO: 7 miles alternating 600m at HM with 1,000m at HM +35 seconds/mile

6 WEEKS TO GO: 7 miles alternating 800m at HM-5 seconds/mile with 800m at HM +35 seconds/mile

4 WEEKS TO GO: 8 miles alternating 1,000m at HM-10 seconds/mile with 600m at HM +30 seconds/mile

2 WEEKS TO GO: 8 miles alternating 1,000m at HM-10 seconds/mile with 600m at HM +20 seconds/mile

Not meaning to trivialize the advice of someone waaaay more qualified than I am, but that reads just like a formalized structure to a fartlek run. I guess my point in saying that is more to indicate "No wonder fartlek runs can be such useful workouts".

As a masters runner, I know one thing I need to do is regulate the number of hard efforts per week. One speed, one tempo, one long run every week may just be too much. Reading that article along with other things makes me wonder if I can/should mix some more variable pace/fartlek into the bulk of my regular runs. Would I see noticeable benefits without breaking down? Maybe structure my weeks more like this (% are of weekly mileage and may include doubles)

Mon - Pure recovery/off (5-10%)

Tues - speed/intervals (10-15%)

Wed - Pure recovery (5-10%)

Thurs - Varied pace (15-20%)

Fri - Varied pace (15%)

Sat - Varied pace (10%)

Sun - Long (25%)

Detroit 1-8-7 - 5:30m/m pace for your first race of the season sounds really good to me. Well run.

Running4IAM - hope you get your hammy sorted.

samblackbones - congrats on a HUGE PB in San Diego. Impressed you hung in there when things got really tough. Real guts there mate.

Abu Seyame - thanks. Nice week at your end. Thanks also for the link, will take a look at that.

CTA - interested to hear that you're going to try a different approach this time around. Think we all have to play around with the training to find the things that really work for us. In terms of the fracture, I don't think my foot is ever going to feel the same as it did. There's no pain or discomfort but it just feels different - guess that's not suprising as there's an extra lump of bone in my foot!

BB - great midweek 5k, impressive progression in pace.

stamford branch - damn, that's a blisteringly quick 1500m. Very, very well run.

Brum - thanks mate. FWIW, I don't know anyone who had a good run at Bupa 10k. Quite a few people seemed to get the course as long on their Garmin's. Regardless, if you can run a 34 when feeling terrible then that's a good sign! Nice 3k, that's shifting.

Pablo - think you've been very smart with the soleus. Hope that it settles down. Looking forward to seeing you blitz another 5k this weekend. Give it hell!

Some Coked Up Brit - good lord man, you've been through the wringer. Really pleased to hear that things are looking up again.

VF Runner - as a fellow "masters" runner, I find I can't really do 3 hard sessions per week anymore without becoming excessively fatigued. These days I tend to either do a hard run on Weds + Sun or moderately hard on Weds + Sun with a session on a Friday.

This week i managed to get a little running in.

M - 4 (7:09)

T - off

W - 7

T - 6

F - off

S - 6 with 5k parkrun (18:47)

S - 11 (7:04)

Calf feels like it's getting better, my hamstrings feel like they ache all the time. Seems like nerves but it doesn't get worse when I keep running. Eill continue building slowly.

Milage: 34

YTD: 1776

brumrunner: Yes, good 10K considering you're not there yet. Building up the speed is the easy part right?

Pablo: You seem to be good at going easy on your easy days. So for these overdistance runs, what kind of paces are you running? I think 7s for 25mi might have been too fast for me right now, but I struggle to see the value in running 7:30-45s. I was a bit spend the rest of the day after the 25 and wonder if I'd bounce back faster at 7:30s. Somehow I think that 25mi at any pace is hard enough to get tough in the end regardless of pace.

Abu/VF: I agree that perhaps a fartlek run thrown in there would be beneficial. I'm only 31, but have already reached the point where I can only handle two hard efforts a week. The coach of my former club used to mix things up like this every workout. He always said that your body shouldn't get comfortable with a specific pace and distance or it wouldn't improve. I guess this is a more scientific explanation. So week after week of 6-7x1600m at HMP will not work after a while. Our distances and paces would be all over the place. It builds mental toughness too.

by the way, I realize this is probably a stupid question, but how do I make things bold? No idea.

VF Runner - I'm 15 years away from being a masters runner and I truly believe in the power of the fartlek run. I agree with you and marmite, 2 hard efforts per week is good enough for me...sometimes I can handle 3 hard efforts if 2 of them are more moderately paced.

BostonBound wrote:

Pablo: You seem to be good at going easy on your easy days. So for these overdistance runs, what kind of paces are you running? I think 7s for 25mi might have been too fast for me right now, but I struggle to see the value in running 7:30-45s. I was a bit spend the rest of the day after the 25 and wonder if I'd bounce back faster at 7:30s. Somehow I think that 25mi at any pace is hard enough to get tough in the end regardless of pace.

I've never actually done an overdistance run before, it's just something I'm trying out this cycle. Yes, my easy days are typically pretty easy (moreso than most people in my time range), but if there's one run per week I try to keep an honest pace, it's my long run. If for no other reason, than exactly what you said in your post. A 25-30 mile run is going to be physically demanding at most any pace. As for me, my overdistance runs will probably start at my easy pace (~7:30ish) and if all goes well, I'll work down to 6:30ish pace towards the end. It's hard to say for sure though since I've never done one.

BTW, you bold by putting brackets...[]...around the letter b, then type whatever text you want bolded, and finish with a "/b" inside brackets again to stop the bolded text.

I'll type the word "bold" inside brackets to show how you do it...

[b.]bold[/b.]

when you remove the periods

bold

You can do the same for italics and underline...just replace the "b" with an "i" or "u" accordingly.

pablo: Thanks.

Pablo (and here's to hoping I haven't screwed up with the emboldening...) Thanks very much - you're right, I was a bit overtrained, coupled with recovering from long term reduced immune system, insomnia, overwork etc! I think I'm on the road to recovery now.

I'm now thinking of Amsterdam marathon.

Looks like I picked a good week to take off from running. It's supposed to be close to 100 the next few days!! And you know it's going to be coming with a nice dose of humidity as well.

Marmite: Nice 10K. Your training week looks a lot like what I want to be doing in the next few months. Only difference is a long run replacing your race, and less doubles...longer singles.

samblackbones: Way to stay tough the last 10 miles. That takes a lot of mental strength. I've never dropped out of a race, but I've definitely thought about it during races much shorter than a marathon! Nice PR.

BostonBound: That's one hell of a long run.

New guys: Welcome.

Goal Marathon: Chicago

Goal Time: 2:20

Mon: 6.7 miles with 6x10s hill sprints; 5.6 miles (7:30)

Tue: 1.5 miles warm-up, 7.5 miles medium (6:05), 1 mile cool-down; 3 miles (7:31)

Wed: 11.6 miles (7:35)

Thur: 8 miles (6:46)

Fri: 7.2 miles (6:44); 3 miles (7:21)

Sat: 1.5 miles warm-up, 9 miles medium progression with 3 mile sections in 18:51, 17:44, 16:56, .9 mile cool-down. This was a frustrating workout because I was hoping to run 5:30s on the last section and only averaged 5:39 even though I was trying to run hard. I picked it up the last 3/4 mile on the last mile and still only split 5:35. Sometimes I get really rusty in the early/mid base phase, so hopefully I'll gain some fitness soon because speed work starts in a couple of weeks.

Sun: 12.9 miles (6:41). I was planning on 14 and decided to explore some new roads. I ended up not paying attention to where I was running and ended up 4-5 miles away from where I planned. One of my wife's work friends lived a little over a mile away, so I made her my back-up and ran a few miles down the road to the parents of a kid I used to coach. Luckily they were home and gave me a ride.

Week Total=79 miles. This week I'm hoping for around 90ish and will increase my medium progression to 10 miles and hopefully run better. My new daughter is killing my sleeping at night but luckily my teaching career gives me summers off.

Here's my schedule for the next 9 weeks.

Monday: Evening Race (Most likely in hot-humid conditions and slow)

Tuesday-Sunday: Slow running.

I've decided that I don't really want to do anything hard this summer. Much more enjoyable running slow as shit in the summer than trying to do quality and still run slow as shit. So I'll be jogging along until August 15th when I'll get serious again about marathon training. Basically I'm doing HADD training and lowering my typical HR ranges by 5 bpm. So the highest HR I'll run at this summer is 150bpm (outside of the races). My max is ~185.

I was dealing with a wonky left hamstring that derailed some faster running training. That seems to have healed, now I just need to get everything else back.

I'm still hoping to PR in New York (2:46ish), but I'm glad I got that 2:48 out of the way in Boston. I'm looking forward to a nice hard training session in the beautiful October/November/early December weather we get here for Houston.

Another: Ah, you are so mean. Now you've got me dreaming about the cool dry air of October as I await tomorrow's 98F.

Seriously though, sounds like a good plan.

Alright 1st post! Just finished up track season last week and took some active down time. Never been a high mileage guy, highest week ever was 75 but traditionally I'm in the 55-65 range. Now that I'm focusing on my first half marathon this fall I want to peak out around 80 or so by the end of the summer.

Goal: get the mileage up and stay healthy

Race: Not set in stone yet but maybe Indianapolis early November

Week 1

Monday- 7

Tuesday- off/rest

Wednesday- 7

Thursday- off/rest

Friday- 7

Saturday- off/rest

Sunday-7

(28)

YTD:1165