50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

amkelley wrote:

I normally consume well over 3000 calories per day, and even at 70 mpw that seems like an awful lot for a 116 pound, 60 year old woman. Not that I'm complaining...

I dunno, amkelley, the comeback to that would seem to be "I'll have what she's having." Great job and good luck next weekend.

My takeaway from the week is how surprisingly normal I feel despite what is for me a new peak of 53+ miles. My body appreciates the rhythm of hard-easy-easy, and taking the 9th day for either XT or total rest keeps my weekly mileage totals from getting out of hand.

If you recall my "relaxed" 10K time trial at 95% effort indoors a month ago ... or even if you don't ... I did it again this week and it went much better. A nice steady 39-minute run, half a minute faster and with negative splits. I'm still unclear, though, if I was giving only 95%. My heart rate in the last 10' was 180-181, my lactate threshold. Doesn't that mean I'm running at greater than 95% of 10K effort if I'm at LT??

As a result I'm still dithering even what ballpark time to shoot for in my first half marathon, coming up in three weeks. But I've made up my mind on one thing: no gels, no energy shots, it's only a half and if I bonk I bonk.

53.27 miles thusly:

M - 7.91 miles

Tu - Fartlek Long Run on the TM: 10 x (1/4mile T + 3/4mile regular) = 12 miles

W - 5.87 miles

Th - 5.72 miles

F - "Relaxed" indoor 10k = 7.8 miles

Sa - 6.79

Su - hilly 7.88 miles

My contribution to the diet discussion.... A few of my dont's; No soda, ever. Avoid white fatty condiments, Keep sugar to a minimum. Other than that my breakfast is usually a protein shake and organic bar thing from Costco, lunch is almost always a lean meat sandwich with mustard, pretzels and carrots; Dinners are usually bigger as I'm always starving after work. PB&J before I run then Chili, Salmon, Chicken breast or spaghetti are on my regular rotation. I drink mostly water. Usually eat out on the weekends. Like a good burger and I can easily eat a whole pizza. Weight has been stable in the 165'ish area +/- 3-4 lbs. for the past 15 years. I seem to be able to easily lose a few lbs if needed with a day or two of disciplined eating.

So its no real plan but be aware everything I put in my body.

I logged almost 53 miles for the week. And thats with two 5-1/2's and a 3 mile day. I feel like can easily get to the 60's if I bump those easy days up a bit. Highlights were 6x1000 @ CV...around 6:00 pace. Two days with 5:30 pace strides and a decent 13 Saturday at around 7:37 pace. I've got about a 5 week streak going but I'm sure I'll be taking Saturday off due to our 12 hr drive to SC.

Running seems to be going better. The long long runs and workouts have all gone well but boy I really seem to struggle on the easy days. Motivation and attitude in addition to really dragging thru my runs kind of wear on me. But I've slogged thru them and have only missed three days this year. Daily average is around 7.6 so I've been able to accomplish my goal of getting the miles up this year. It was a lot of treadmill miles since its been so cold the past few months. Hopeful of running being less of a hassle now that the weather is breaking.

One last thing I noticed last week.... We all saw Nat Larson won the 55-59 at the 8K champs. But even more impressive...The next day he ran a 1:16:09 HM at the New Bedford HM. Thats amazing to me since I can barely walk the day after a workout...

Have a good week,

Dave

Welcome back, Mike, and sorry about the surgery. Being so new to this I can't imagine what this kind of chronic injury must be like psychologically after a lifetime of running. I'm glad the shots can get you through the next 8 months.

MikeF wrote:

Been reading all of the diet dialogue the past couple of weeks...like marketing reserach, you can make the science say whatever it is you're trying to make it say.

Not to push back too hard, but the diet dialogue here has been nothing "like marketing research." Everyone has speaking from their own experience. Yes, it's possible that we see something in the news or on YouTube that confirms our lifestyle choices, then we tuck that away into memory. But if you drill down on the latest and most rigorously conducted nutrition science, plant-based eating wins every single time.

However, even that is conditioned by the fact that nutrition science can, at best, capture the broad lifestyle habits of medium-sized cohorts. More often researchers can only track a few key metrics among enormous groups of study participants. If SCgal is getting it done with chocolate and wine, to quote a theologian, who am I to judge? (Btw, two great plant-based foods.)

But I do think our choices can have broad social effects when multiplied. And public health research is the ultimate BS detector. If our food choices are responsible, then they won't pollute rivers in the Upper Midwest and runoff toxins into the Gulf of Mexico. If high levels of animal protein and no exercise are good for you, well, these millennials should be rocking it at doctor's checkups.

Of course, I am rooting for the public to defund animal agriculture, the way it defunded the tobacco industry after the 1964 Surgeon General's report. But even social change like that, which in hindsight seems like a no-brainer, took an enormous amount of time and energy to bring about (see below). So in the end, all you can do is determine what's best for yourself and the planet and try to follow that.

KCgeezer wrote:

Not to push back too hard, but the diet dialogue here has been nothing "like marketing research."

I think it was Dale Carnegie in his book ‘How to Win Friends and Influence People’ that said; “A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still”. It acknowledges an understanding that it is difficult to change opinions no matter how much "proof' is given, particularly in a forum such as this. This is not a place to proselytize.

KCgeezer wrote:

Welcome back, Mike, and sorry about the surgery. Being so new to this I can't imagine what this kind of chronic injury must be like psychologically after a lifetime of running. I'm glad the shots can get you through the next 8 months.

MikeF wrote:

Been reading all of the diet dialogue the past couple of weeks...like marketing reserach, you can make the science say whatever it is you're trying to make it say.

Not to push back too hard, but the diet dialogue here has been nothing "like marketing research." Everyone has speaking from their own experience. Yes, it's possible that we see something in the news or on YouTube that confirms our lifestyle choices, then we tuck that away into memory. But if you drill down on the latest and most rigorously conducted nutrition science, plant-based eating wins every single time.

Don't let YMMV hear you say that. This guy is the biggest advocate for the LC/High-fat Keto diet that I've ever seen (I think he's middle-aged cat). There's been some real "donnybrooks" with him and Vegans on some of the crazy diet threads on the mainframe. Mention "Vegan" and he'll come at you full-throttle with the LC/HF diet.

I have successfully managed my weight, LDL level, BP, blood sugar, RBC count among other things by tweaking my diet. But I have absolutely no intention of giving any one unsolicited advice on diet. To paraphrase what Whitlock said about training, I don't think this the right diet for everyone, and it may not even be the best diet for myself. I has worked well so far. If it stops working, then I will search for new adjustment to make it work better. I am agnostic about diet, and try to stay away from any "religious" war.

My week.

M: off.

T-W: 6 miles.

R: 7 miles.

F-SA: 6 miles.

SU: 12.2 miles.

So this was a cut back week after three weeks of build up. My "long" run on Sunday started with 9:08 for the first mile and ended with 7:26 for the last mile. This was the fastest closing pace for the season, and the overall time as about 90 sec faster than the last time I ran the same distance. So things are moving in the right direction.

I remember as a youngster growing up in the 60s my grandparents telling me never to discuss religion and politics in public. It will, they told me, inevitably lead to hostile debate. I guess in the 21st century I can add "diets" to that list. Lol.

This is kind of interesting on the subject; maybe this guy is onto something:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/nov/15/us-researchers-seek-to-end-carbs-v-fat-diet-wars

Haha, totally agree. He's the old guy trapped in the teenager combative mind. It's just sad to age that way.

Sunday morning my wife made an omelette with old fashion bacon, toast, jam and some blackberries. Oh, coffee and O.J. too. Not sure if it was that or the grilled chicken and mash potatoes for dinner. Anyway, after working a good portion of Saturday chopping a tree root with a pick ax I faced a tough Monday morning interval session. Eight miles of running and ran pretty well for 68.5 years old. Perhaps a better diet would yield superior results. Pretty sure that is not going to happen. I really love my running and a good Sunday omelette with a side of “the devine swine.”

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Sunday morning my wife made an omelette with old fashion bacon, toast, jam and some blackberries. Oh, coffee and O.J. too. Not sure if it was that or the grilled chicken and mash potatoes for dinner. Anyway, after working a good portion of Saturday chopping a tree root with a pick ax I faced a tough Monday morning interval session. Eight miles of running and ran pretty well for 68.5 years old. Perhaps a better diet would yield superior results. Pretty sure that is not going to happen. I really love my running and a good Sunday omelette with a side of “the devine swine.”

Hey...if that breakfast works for you then why change it (sounds delicious, btw).

I'm exactly 10 yrs younger than you (58.5) and if I can do an eight mile run when I reach 68 (God willing), I'll be popping champagne corks and celebrating!

Keep up the good work! ?

But seriously, I’m with RF reader and SCgal on the diet. Earlier, a few years back, I’ve thrown down my issues with prediabetes here and how I changed my diet and that resulted in improved running. That said I also enjoy some wine, a bit of beer, and on occasion some chocolate.

Yesterday I did WMA cross country championships (8K) in Poland and got 3rd in my age, so when I got to my hotel later in the day celebrated with some wine. And then a couple pieces of chocolate. And for dinner it was a salmon with spinach and green pasta, and a beer-all for under $10 USA.

Congratulations, third in the World. One of my clients had dual citizenship and retired to Poland.

Thanks. I was pleased, but today I am a little squeaky getting out the door.

Lots of great spring training happening here. I've had a couple PT sessions during the past two weeks, and I'm working on the prescribed exercises.

If I can get back running again, I may revisit my 2016 training: only 2-3 running days with some bicycling each week. I stayed healthy with that approach. I was still was able to run 3:25 marathon and 20-minute 5K (age 57). More serious training netted 3:07 and sub-19 at 58, but also 3 months of injury-downtime, and 4+ months so far as a 59-year-old.

Current "training": Last week and the week before were the same -- three 20-minute sessions (two on the elliptical, one on the bike trainer). Plus some upper body work and the knee rehab exercises.

Very minimal, but it's a start.

CM -- congratulations again on the stellar placing at World's.

amkelley -- Enjoy a well-deserved taper week, and enjoy, too, your marathon "comeback"!

Have a great week, everyone.

Coyote Montane wrote:

But seriously, I’m with RF reader and SCgal on the diet. Earlier, a few years back, I’ve thrown down my issues with prediabetes here and how I changed my diet and that resulted in improved running. That said I also enjoy some wine, a bit of beer, and on occasion some chocolate.

Yesterday I did WMA cross country championships (8K) in Poland and got 3rd in my age, so when I got to my hotel later in the day celebrated with some wine. And then a couple pieces of chocolate. And for dinner it was a salmon with spinach and green pasta, and a beer-all for under $10 USA.

Wow, that's terrific! Congratulations! Definitely an occasion for some wine and chocolate.

Salmon is our "traditional" Sunday night celebration of life/week/love/good health meal, and we always make certain to have enough for another meal with salmon later in the week. Cannot imagine anything healthier on the plate, alongside organic greens, organic veggies and organic quinoa. And yes, some chocolate-laced desert.

Congratulations on the nice run at Worlds, CM! Glad to hear we're following the same nutrition plan. I've been watching online but I don't think they included XC in the programming. What did you think of the course? I heard it was like running on sand dunes.

Coyote Montane wrote:

Yesterday I did WMA cross country championships (8K) in Poland and got 3rd in my age, so when I got to my hotel later in the day celebrated with some wine. And then a couple pieces of chocolate. And for dinner it was a salmon with spinach and green pasta, and a beer-all for under $10 USA.

C'mon, CM! Thats a little too non-chalant for a Big Freakin' Deal like that! You never mentioned you were running there. I'm requesting a full race report with details...

Dave

Dave thanks! And Igy, amkelly and SCgal. think I did mention that I’d be doing this few weeks ago but sort of quietly and don’t think many noticed.

I did a detailed blow blow for some friends and will edit that for here. Only have my iPad here so editing and cut and paste is a chore.

Really wiped out today, like I ran an all out half marathon and drove until 2 am to get home kind of tired. All about recovery til Saturday, when I actually do run the half.