D3 Outdoor track, time to get big

Joe Mama wrote:

go pleasure Mike Spian

you seem more than willing to take care of that

Didn't the east coast do very well in the steeple? Pretty good in the 1500 as well. How does your theory hold up if one east coast person underperformed their seed but were outperformed by another person from the east?

Score Board score board score board. who won the meet? who got second? third? forth? oh wait surely the first east coast school didnt place 6th... yep it did... BOOM ROASTED!!!

Men's (800, 1500, steeple, 5k, 10k)

# of Top 3 seeds from the East: 7

# of Top 3 seeds from the Midwest: 8

# of Top 3 finishers from the East: 5

# of Top 3 finishers from the Midwest:10

As for All-American,

# of Top 8 seeds from the East: 12

# of Top 8 seeds from the Midwest: 26

# of AA finishers from the East: 16

# of AA finishers from the Midwest: 24

So I would say on the whole, neither region did drastically better or worse than expected based on seeds.

For comparison's sake, over the past 10 years at nationals, the east has averaged 14.6 AA's in these five events, while the midwest has averaged 21.3, so both regions slightly outperformed what should be expected.

For the record, I'm counting anything from Ohio to Minnesota as Midwest and anything northeast of Pennsylvania and Maryland as East.

so it is confirmed then? midwest baby YES YES YES!

I find it impressive that schools such as Williams, MIT, Tufts, Middlebury, Amherst, St. Lawrence, Ithaca, John's Hopkins, NYU etc. can keep pace at NCAA championships. Getting in to MIT is damn near impossible, same with Williams and Amherst. The rest are not easy, either. Yet, these schools are still able to recruit top caliber athletes who perform at a high level in and out of the classroom. Not to knock lower tiered schools, but there is a distinct advantage when it's easier to get students in.

Also, it's an advantage when you have close to 10,000 students to chose from. I had no idea the Wisconsin schools were so big. 11,000 at Oshkosh alone - that's massive.

Possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard. [/quote]

Really? My being disappointed in a slow race is literally the "stupidest thing [you] have ever heard?"

Well NYU does have 22000 undergrad. Class size really doesn't matter that much; it's all about recruiting. It's not like high school where you have to find the future 9:20 guy roaming the halls.

Ouch! you played the we are smarter than you card, unrelated to what we were talking about, BUT!

U of Chicago, Wash U, Wheaton, are as good as good as johnny hopkins, MIT, and NYU. The others I really have no clue what their caliber is, (1) b/c it is an undergrad education, and if you aren't in the ivies or at MIT on the eastcoast, no one really cares, and (2) b/c in the end, this is about the athletic performance, not impressive recruiting techniques.

Boom Re-roasted!

right... wrote:

I find it impressive that schools such as Williams, MIT, Tufts, Middlebury, Amherst, St. Lawrence, Ithaca, John's Hopkins, NYU etc. can keep pace at NCAA championships. Getting in to MIT is damn near impossible, same with Williams and Amherst. The rest are not easy, either. Yet, these schools are still able to recruit top caliber athletes who perform at a high level in and out of the classroom. Not to knock lower tiered schools, but there is a distinct advantage when it's easier to get students in.

As a coach at a top 20 academic school I have to really disagree. We dont have any support from admissions but we always bring in top level athletes because of the academic reputation of our school. 9:20 and 4:20 guys every year I'd like to be able to say I was just a crazy good recruiter but in reality its just very very easy to recruit people to come to a school with a great rep.

Plus twice the athletic budget of any other nescac school!

NYU may have 22,000 undergrads... but try training in lower Manhattan with no track and no trails. Academics can bring kids in but great academic schools 2 hours up I-95 (with better facilities) can pull them right away. NYU has done a great job IMO.

Midwesterner wrote:

Well NYU does have 22000 undergrad. Class size really doesn't matter that much; it's all about recruiting. It's not like high school where you have to find the future 9:20 guy roaming the halls.

Rabid Wiener wrote:

NYU may have 22,000 undergrads... but try training in lower Manhattan with no track and no trails. Academics can bring kids in but great academic schools 2 hours up I-95 (with better facilities) can pull them right away. NYU has done a great job IMO.

Yeah but NYU pulls in recruits from all over the country. Schwelm is from California, for example. Then you compare them to the other top New York schools like Saint Lawrence and Geneseo, who get almost no one from out of state (SLU gets a couple Canadians and New Englanders, Geneseo is almost entirely from NYS). That's a big advantage. Not to mention have almost 4 times as many undergrads as Geneseo.

Schwelm came to NYU for the elite music program, kid might be from california, but he couldn't break 10:30 in the 3200 in HSPrivate schools at DIII have a tough time competing against the lower academic requirements, cheap state subsidized tuition, easier admittance standards that the public schools have. Some private's get alot of help (wash U, middlebury, williams) but most battle to get 1350/4.0 kids accepted.

Rabid Wiener wrote:

NYU may have 22,000 undergrads... but try training in lower Manhattan with no track and no trails. Academics can bring kids in but great academic schools 2 hours up I-95 (with better facilities) can pull them right away. NYU has done a great job IMO.

Yeah but NYU pulls in recruits from all over the country. Schwelm is from California, for example. Then you compare them to the other top New York schools like Saint Lawrence and Geneseo, who get almost no one from out of state (SLU gets a couple Canadians and New Englanders, Geneseo is almost entirely from NYS). That's a big advantage. Not to mention have almost 4 times as many undergrads as Geneseo.[/quote]

re-roasted? ok...and you apparently don't know your ****. People care a lot about other schools, you know, like the #1 and #2 liberal arts colleges in the United States every year in Williams and Amherst. Middlebury is not far behind, and they just won XC nationals on the women's side. It's why they and a handful of other small east coast schools are nicknamed the little ivies - just as hard to get into.

Yes, it's about athletic performance...which is done by great athletes...who are recruited...it's all tied together.

And if it's about overall athletic performance, well, no one compares to Williams. Not only close to impossible to get into, but they also have won 14 of the 16 Director's cup trophies handed out since 1995.

Well it's kind of hard to compete when you don't offer as many wacky sports as Williams does.

But who cares? Why does every D3 thread have to end in a pissing match?

Same reason as usual, some idiot from the MW starts the pissing.

Midwesterner wrote:

Well it's kind of hard to compete when you don't offer as many wacky sports as Williams does.

But who cares? Why does every D3 thread have to end in a pissing match?

3than wrote:

All I have to say is that D-III running deserves more attention. All of the runners you see at D-III nats and many more could be very competitive in D-I and D-II programs. Runners like Nick Guarino, Mike Spain, Dan Benton, etc. and programs like UW-La Crosse, North central, McMurry, etc. all command respect. I would love to see how D-III athletes would compete in Stanford Meets.

When I went to the D3 Nationals at Ohio Wesleyan last weekend, the announcer mentioned the D3 record for the mens 400 hurdles. 49:59. Some guy named Moses.

Looks like Guarino is continuing with his season. He will compete tonight in an Open Mile at Warwick Valley Fast Times Meet in NY.

Event 13 Men 1 Mile Run

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Name Year School Seed Finals

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1 Giambanco, Vince Open NT

2 Kiley, Greg Open NT

3 Streb, Mark Open NT

4 Guarino, Josh Open NT

5 Lagno, Paul Open NT

6 Herzi, Mohamed Open NT

7 Mack, Bobbie Open NT

8 Ritchie, Tim Open NT

9 Fox, Mike Open NT

10 Guarino, Nick Open NT

11 Eustis, Colin Open NT

12 Delbene, Volby Open NT

13 Heibell, Chris Open NT

14 Furst, Stephen Adidas Raleigh NT

15 La Mastro, Anthony Open NT