I don't want to dig through every page of all the Isaiah Koech threads. Does anyone have any legitimate evidence that he either is or is not as hold as he claims? No, him looking older than 17 doesn't definitively mean he is older than 17. Just curious.
he was born in kenya so he probably doesn't have a birth certificate, but there might be a birth anouncement in the local haiwaiian newspaper.
Almost better yet, does it even matter how old he is? This dude is fast as balls either way and he's on the cusp of several world records, which it seems he should be capable of accomplishing. If someone beats Bekele's indoor 5000 WR, I really won't care if he's 17 or 71; it will still be the fastest indoor 5000m of all time.
the truth shall set you free wrote:
he was born in kenya so he probably doesn't have a birth certificate, but there might be a birth anouncement in the local haiwaiian newspaper.
Now this is a quality post.
As for the OP, I dotn see a trend coming out of Kenya that would tell me they are cheating.
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm wrote:
I don't want to dig through every page of all the Isaiah Koech threads. Does anyone have any legitimate evidence that he either is or is not as hold as he claims? No, him looking older than 17 doesn't definitively mean he is older than 17. Just curious.
There is no concrete evidence of his ages, nor has their ever been any evidence of wrondoing by the KAAA, that is, until they get caught, or until Koech defects to Qatar. At that point, just as they've done in the past, they will suddenly reveal his real age.
This has been an ongoing problem with the Kenyan Federation. This is nothing new.
is there any concrete evidence that he's 17?
12:53 is concrete evidence that he is older than 17. Not conclusive evidence, but pretty strong evidence.
Having read many of Renato Canova's posts on Kenyan training, it seems most unlikely that a 17-year-old could have the years of training and physical maturity necessary to reach 12:53.
Unlikely, not impossible.
I wonder what Coach Canova has to say about this young man?
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm wrote:
If someone beats Bekele's indoor 5000 WR, I really won't care if he's 17 or 71.
Being much closer to 71 than 17, I'd be much more impressed, and perhaps inspired, if he turned out to be 71.
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm wrote:
Almost better yet, does it even matter how old he is? This dude is fast as balls either way and he's on the cusp of several world records, which it seems he should be capable of accomplishing. If someone beats Bekele's indoor 5000 WR, I really won't care if he's 17 or 71; it will still be the fastest indoor 5000m of all time.
It matters how old he is if he is setting Junior Records while not being "eligible" for them.
well, time will tell. if he stops improving in like 3 years, we'll know he's early 20's now instead of 17, if he keeps improving for 5+ years then he is 17 now. either way if he gets any world records it doesn't matter, just the junior records will be screwed up.
i wonder if that is why some kenyans seemingly burn out by the time they are like 20, maybe cuz when they hit the international scene and start getting noticed when they are "17" or "18" they are actually already in their 20's so when we think they should be starting to enter their peak years they are done.
In modern Kenya, policies assure that proof of age is much more accurate than was the case before 1990. I'll bet that Isaiah Koech has as accurate a proof of birth document as the average U.S. citizen. Here are some concrete facts to consider:
Republic of Kenya National Registration Bureau:
http://www.identity.go.ke/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88&Itemid=114
FAQ
Q13. Why should I not be allowed to assess the age of my child?
Rule 4(2) (Rule 4(1) & (2), Principal Rules of the Registration of Persons Amendment Rules 1989) forbids that and prescribes that where a person attends before a registration officer for the purpose of having himself registered under Section 6(2) of the Act, the registration officer shall demand proof of date of birth or apparent age by production of the birth certificate or age assessment certificate issued by a government medical officer of health or a baptismal certificate issued by a minister of a recognized religious organization immediately following his birth or some other evidence acceptable to the Principal Registrar.
Refugees International:
In Kenya, a national ID is the hallmark of citizenship
Under Kenya’s Registration of Persons Act, citizens 18 or over must register with the National Registration Bureau and obtain a national ID. Failure to do so is a crime.
ID cards are required to register to vote, obtain a passport, purchase property, open a bank account, conduct business, seek employment, access higher education, enter government buildings, and get married.
The registration process relies on the Constitution of Kenya and the Kenya Citizenship Act, which provide that citizenship can be obtained through birth, descent, registration, or naturalization.
The registration process requires proof of age, usually shown by a birth certificate, and proof of citizenship.
Proof of age (birth certificate, baptismal card, school leaving certificate)
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Kenya isn't nearly as primitive a nation as some here would have us believe.
I don't give a rat's ass about junior records.
People mature, develop and get deep into training at different ages.
He is the fastest human at 5000m this year and one of the fastest ever.
Jump-O wrote:
In modern Kenya, policies assure that proof of age is much more accurate than was the case before 1990. I'll bet that Isaiah Koech has as accurate a proof of birth document as the average U.S. citizen. Here are some concrete facts to consider:
It's the apologists who go on about how backward Kenya is and how they don't have any proper documentation, so therefore have no real idea of how old they are.
I'm quite happy to Kenya the benefit of the doubt about how advanced they are so I actually believe the whole age thing is a cynical scam.
It's just a bit embarrassing when one of these '17 year olds' comes out and runs 12:53. That kinda lets the cat out of the bag.
trollism wrote:
Jump-O wrote:In modern Kenya, policies assure that proof of age is much more accurate than was the case before 1990. I'll bet that Isaiah Koech has as accurate a proof of birth document as the average U.S. citizen. Here are some concrete facts to consider:
It's the apologists who go on about how backward Kenya is and how they don't have any proper documentation, so therefore have no real idea of how old they are.
I'm quite happy to Kenya the benefit of the doubt about how advanced they are so I actually believe the whole age thing is a cynical scam.
It's just a bit embarrassing when one of these '17 year olds' comes out and runs 12:53. That kinda lets the cat out of the bag.
Wanjiru won the olympic marathon at age 21. I think the only way to compete with the Kenyans is to eat sleep breathe training from early childhood. Kids should start running at age 3 or 4. By 13, they should be doing 100 mile weeks. By 20, they should be well over 150 mpw with very hard workouts.
To be honest, I love these stories of mythical kenyans coming from total obscurity to absolutely crushing everyone. Maybe I'm naive, or just like to believe in fairytales, but more power to this kid- 17 or not. The kid had to have his vest taped at the top for goodness sake...like he just showed up, they couldn't find a Nike international vest that fit him, and he goes out and completely obliterates the field (including kipchoge, mind you!). It puts a spring in my step.
Wanjiru won the olympic marathon at age 21. I think the only way to compete with the Kenyans is to eat sleep breathe training from early childhood. Kids should start running at age 3 or 4. By 13, they should be doing 100 mile weeks. By 20, they should be well over 150 mpw with very hard workouts.
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100 mile weeks at age 13 is a little much. Probably about 70-80 is good( Geb is a good example of that) I'd say, however, that you should probably have a base of right around 70-75 for right around 10-11 years and then when you start speed work and intense stuff you destroy. Quite impressive performances by Koech even if he is older than he says. It really was a great performance.
He was born in Kenya so he probably had to do without:
Internet
Cars
McDonalds
Walmart
U.S. Laws
U.S. Paperwork Requirements
How horrifying to learn that other countries do not follow U.S. paperwork rules.
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm wrote:
Almost better yet, does it even matter how old he is? This dude is fast as balls either way and he's on the cusp of several world records, which it seems he should be capable of accomplishing. If someone beats Bekele's indoor 5000 WR, I really won't care if he's 17 or 71; it will still be the fastest indoor 5000m of all time.
I don't care how old he is, but I also don't really care if he breaks the indoor WR, unless he ran faster than the outdoor WR...
I hate when people argue about irrelevancies. What has age to do with an open race. He won it, beating a world champion and Olympic silver medalist, period. And more importantly, he ran the fourth fastest time ever over the distance! Lydia Cheromei ran 33:20 for 10000m at the tender age of 13 (1990) and 31:41 for 10000m and 8:51 for 3000m at 15yrs of age. Sally Barsosio ran 32:41 for 10000m at age 14(1992) and at 15 yrs of age, ran 31:15. Those are just two examples. I am not saying that Isaiah Koech is 17 but rather that a 17 yr old can run that time and even faster. It is all about the culture and lifestyle. Kenyans and Ethiopians take running as a full-time job, with notheing else on the side. And it is not just another job. It pays real good if you hung on long enough. There are so many examples like Daniel Komen, Samuel Wanjiru, Paul Tergat, Tecla Loroupe, Catherine Ndereba and many others, who have made it big, bought nice cars, built beautiful houses etc. So the kids put in hours and effort, knowing that ultimately they will reach there. These young fellows train in camps where there are no TVs and internet and phone. All that they do is train, eat and sleep. And for those who go to school, they do their home work. It is sort of like a boot-camp. Many olympic and world champions as well as record holders frequent these camps to motivate the youth. With this kind of environment, you expect a great result. Of course many never make it big but half a dozen or so come out of these camps and cause a shock to an unsuspecting world. For all the skeptics on these message boards, I have one advice: Save some money and visit Kenyan and Ethiopian camps and live with the athletes for a month(I hope you will survive!!!). Until then, stop posting such articles over here....