Paying for police services will hurt roadrunning

There's nothing wrong with charging the full price for using the cops.

There's a sprint triathlon I've done that costs about $15 to do and that's including blocking off 10k off roads for the bike, using a pool, a shirt and tons of free food after its over. It's a great deal, but I wonder who is footing the bill.

Not exactly "news" since many municipalities have been charging for at least a decade. It had killed some races, and it's often combined with some hefty insurance requirements. One year the Greensboro Marathon has held in High Point because Greensboro wanted to charge $50,000. (about $50 per participant)

Races have been dealing with it by raising entry fees. Around here we're charged $100 per monitored intersection plus about $150 for a supervisor. It's common to have $1500-2000 in police fees plus $500-1000 in insurance for urban 5K.

Even off-road races are subject to fees. Costs us $3 a head to use the trails in a local park for an organized event.

The article was a bit confusing. I think it's saying that currently the police fee is negotiated up front as part of the fees to the affected towns, but it's proposed that the actual police fee be calculated *after* the event so that race directors can't budget for them.

I've put on smaller races and we've always received fixed cost fees from affected towns before the event so we can budget for them. I'd never be willing to run an event where the towns aren't willing to give me a fixed cost (or not to exceed cost) up front. It's not worth the risk. I suppose bigger events could find an insurance policy to cover costs over a fixed amount, but I can't see a smaller event dealing with that.

What does a NYC cop get paid for a days overtime? I assume all cops tasked to these races are in addition to the regular day to day shift demands so they would all be billed at weekend overtime rates.

How many cops pull 'parade duty' for the NYCM?

wineturtle wrote:

Will we no longer be able to throw a lowkey local TurkeyTrot without charging bigcity event marathon prices?

Every town/city I have ever lived in has had numerous suitable locations for a low key Turkey Trot that are not on public roads. Why not hold the races at local parks or golf courses? The Turkey Trot in my home town is run entirely on bike paths and running paths. No need for cops at all.

Obviously, the marathon is different since it's too long to fit in a park unless you're going to do a hell of a lot of loops.

what are taxes for?

Considering the NYC Marathon brings in about $250 million to the city each year, the city shouldn't get too greedy.

Do the Yankees pay for police presence at the games? Does Macy's pay for police at the parade? If so, it seems fair, if not, it seems unfair to charge a non-profit and give a free ride to these profit making companies.

The article kept mentioning that the race isn't non-profit. What does that mean? The marathon is put on by the NYRR which is certainly a non-profit. The fact that this race has revenues greater than its expenses doesn't change that.

quick guess

Minimum a days pay per cop

80 grand base is 320 a day time overtime brings that to around 500 buck a day then you times by 365 intersections and their supervisors gives you a base $200 grand plus cops for the bus loading/unloading area starting at 0dark-hundred and finish area security plus extra cops at the high traffic spots plus all the planning time involved prior to the race. Minimum NYPD bill to NYRRC would be half a million I'd say.

Split among 40,000 runners that "only" another 12 buck a head.

Fire and Sanitation will submit bills too.

Next thing you know Port of NY&NJ Authority will be keeping the toll booths open and collecting a "bridge jogging usage fee" at the start of the Verizon Narrows Bridge-yep naming rights are not just for stadiums any more.

Police fees have killed all of the smaller races in my city--almost every race now except ones that attract over 3000 or so are held within the confines of our park/trail system which gets pretty boring since that is where most people train every day also. The police basically priced themselves out of the market. Say you want to put on a road 5k--you have to meet with the city and they tell you how many police you are going to need based on how many streets are being closed. The minimum they are going to tell you is going to be about 12-15 police. At around $200 per officer that is between $2500 and $3000 just for police. Add in the timing cost, tshirt cost, etc. and you can see how it just isn't feasible to put on a race on the city streets anymore.

The proposal does not specifically name the Road Runners, but instead is directed toward

“noncharitable athletic parades”

that earn revenue from registration fees. That description includes not only the marathon, but also another dozen of the Road Runners’ events run on city streets, including the Harlem 5K and half-marathons in each borough. It would also cover the New York City Triathlon, the Five Boro Bike Tour and many smaller events.

Why the heck shouldn't road races have to pay the full cost of putting on their events?

When they don't, the cost of police are just pushed to taxpayers. I fail to see how asking those who use the service to pay for it isn't completely fair.

I've seen races go from being primarily on the road to taking place mostly on bike paths, boardwalks, through parking lots, etc.

I know for a fact the local major league baseball team in my city pays a certain portion of the costs to have the police attend, do the traffic control, etc. I'm almost certain that almost every other professional sports team (Yankees included) do the same thing.

So, in America you pay the taxes for police, and when you need a cop - you have to pay him separately?

No at all.

Typically, a police / fire department schedules X amount of officers / firemen for a particular day and shift. If a race requires a significant police and fire presence (Chicago, New York, Boston), you're obviously going to need a significant number of uniformed people to block roads, handle traffic, etc. If these officers are watching a bunch of runners, who is doing the normal police work (patrolling neighborhoods, responding to 911 calls, writing speeding tickets)?

Accordingly you'll have to bring in additional help to make certain that while every cop in the city is standing on the corner, some creep isn't breaking into your house. You obviously have to pay the additional cops, and the argument is the event should absorb this cost.

Seems reasonable to me.

well, not really. It's their duty - to protect houses, answering calls AND to protect such events. Using same logic, police could ask for separate payment after 911 calls - cop who investigate such situation can't be somewhere else.

CH wrote:

I know for a fact the local major league baseball team in my city pays a certain portion of the costs to have the police attend, do the traffic control, etc. I'm almost certain that almost every other professional sports team (Yankees included) do the same thing.

Big difference between paying a "certain portion" of the costs, and all of the costs for police.

If you are so knowledgeable, what "portion" to they pay? A percentage would be fine. And what major league team is this?

Thank you.

tomtom wrote:

So, in America you pay the taxes for police, and when you need a cop - you have to pay him separately?

So you think that all tax payers should be able to shut down public streets at no charge? Your taxes pay for basic police protection. Having the police come out to close public rights of way for your event goes well beyond what your property taxes entitle you to.

You are closing roads. This is an inconvenience to people. Now you are going to turn around and ask for a subsidy from those taxpayers who you are inconveniencing?

Hire rent-a-cops for 1/10th the price. Don't feed the 9-11 sponges, police unions, and fire unions.