Is this the correct use of frank horwills 5 pace theory?

Yes, that looks good.

Some notes:

1. This is usually done as pre-season work, after a few months of more mileage-based stuff.

2. Do not hammer every session. 3 interval sessions per week is quite a workload so you should aim to run them so that you feel good, and have enough left for a couple more reps. The correct way to read it is that those sessions give you clues as to your racing potential; NOT to try to run them at you goal race pace.

3. You're training at sprint/400/800/1500/3000/5000 paces so this schedule is likely to benefit your 1500m most. If you're a 400/800 type wanting to get stronger without mileage, this will do it. But when it's time to approach your peak 800s, you might want to do two 800 sessions and one 1500, rather than the other way round.

4. There are many possible 800 sessions. 10x200 is an early one. After a few weeks, mix in 6x300 or 4x400, or even 600-500-400-300 with long rests as you get ready to race.

5. See (2)

Good luck!

You could also address multiple speeds in a micro sense. In other words each workout chould address different speeds. For example breaking up the 1500m with a 400 or something in between. Or 1500, then some 400's (or shorter), then 1500. Integrating speed but also speed endurance.

Getting even more micro you could focus on different speeds within each interval. 400's with the last 60, 80, 100, 120 fast or starting fast and then relaxing out.

This keep each workout from become mind numbing. You become focused on effort, form, and rhythm rather than just time.

these are some great advice u give captainrobbo! Have u followed the 5 pace system or are u a coach?

All of the things u have said is something I have come to realized myself after 12 years in the game :) But its good to be reminded of it because its actually vital.

I have done the basework and now its pre season is approaching. I set up this plan because I got out on a wrong track (in my opinion) runnning lots of slow milage, longer intervalls and no speed work or race pace. I felt that because of this I have stagnated and abit bored. I need some more variation in the stimulu.

Yes 3 intervall session require to hold back on some intervalls. Only ones I will "hammer" will probably be 400/800m pace, and definately not 5k/3k pace sessions.

Thank u for advice 3 and 4. Gives me more variation and a idea how to progress.

Dromia,

I am curious. Is the 400m supposed to be run at faster pace than the 1500m? And is there a physiological reason to to so? Or is it just to avoid boredom/staleness?

(I have almost never done sessions like that myself)

800mrunnermanabc wrote:

these are some great advice u give captainrobbo! Have u followed the 5 pace system or are u a coach?

Both ;-) I have trained with Frank's group at Battersea Park in the early 90s, and enjoyed his company immensely (though he wasn't coaching me); and prior to that in Coe's Sunday group from 87-89, so naturally that was the system I followed when training alone. I'm just getting started coaching now, later in life.

captainrobbo wrote:

Both ;-) I have trained with Frank's group at Battersea Park in the early 90s, and enjoyed his company immensely (though he wasn't coaching me); and prior to that in Coe's Sunday group from 87-89, so naturally that was the system I followed when training alone. I'm just getting started coaching now, later in life.

ok thats cool! whats your opinion on easy weeks? every 3-4-5 week? and how much reduction in training volume.

Does my suggestion of easy every 4 week, by dropping one intervallsession look good?

When I read Horwills article on 5 pace running on serpentine webpage, I was astonished to see how he set up a programe.

He covered 5 paced in 1 week! For 95% of the people I think this will be impossible to do! Any comments about this? Just for the super talented athletes?

From the webpage

"Day 1: Aerobic - 80 per cent - 5 x 1km at 5km pace – 60 secs rest. 95% VO2 max

Day 2: Anaerobic - 83 per cent - 1 x 350m, 1 x 300m, 1 x 250m, 1 x 200m, all full out with good recovery

Day 3: Anaerobic - 67 per cent - 1 x 600m, 1 x 500m, 1 x 400m, all at target 800m pace with good recovery. 130% VO2 max

Day 4: Aerobic - 98 per cent - 10 mile run, 75 secs per mile slower than for one's best mile time. 80% VO2 max

Day 5: Anaerobic - 95 per cent - 3 x 4 x 200m full out with 30 secs rest and 400m walk after each set

Day 6: Rest

Day 7: Race or time trial - 600m or 1,200m or 400m, or in strict rotation, ie, one week, 400m, next week, 600m, third week 1,200m. "

In principle, yes, but maybe more often.

I think that since the 80s we have come to a better understanding of the role of longer runs and tempo work too. You might be even better off spacing things out into a 3 week cycle and including a week with a 4-5 mile tempo run, a decent long run and 2-3 straight easy days (plus some strides or easy relaxed 100s/200s) every third week - sort of a "low lactate week".

Also, the other poster is right that you can mix paces too. If you haven't done 5k pace or 800 pace for a couple of weeks, do half of each.

Presumably you have some races available to you - even if it's pre-season road 5ks, which are great training and better than any 5k track session - so fit the sessions into the gaps, rather than being dictated to by a 2 week cycle.

I use 5-pace as a mental checklist to say "what paces haven't I trained at lately?".

I'm pretty sure nobody ever did it. Frank is a brilliant motivator, a great scholar of the sport, and a deep thinker, but sometimes he gets a little carried away (in fact he can spout some real nonsense at trackside, but it always sounds good at the time!). Apparently Tim Hutchings (his star pupil, 4th place in LA 5000) attempted something like this and decided about 3 days in to space the sessions out a bit further. Certainly when Peter Coe corresponded with him, he got a conventional 3-sessions-per-week version like yours more than 30 years ago.

I think this is one case where he either wrote some stuff down a bit too late at night, or maybe dictated it in the pub to a keen Serpentine member who got it wrong, and it accidentally got preserved. Such are the interwebs ;-)

I don't get to Battersea Park any more but I'm seeing some people who train with him this Saturday - I'll ask them to ask him.

Spread the 5 paces out over 2 weeks.

I checked the Serpies' site. Not sure which article you quoted (I've seen it before too and can't find it now) but the second sentence of this one suggests what he really believes..

http://www.serpentine.org.uk/pages/advice_frank67.html

A few years ago on a lecture tour of South Africa, I put forward a theory about training for the marathon. (In 1974 I put forward another theory about training at five different paces over 14 days – Coe adopted it successfully)."

800mrunnermanabc wrote:

Dromia,

I am curious. Is the 400m supposed to be run at faster pace than the 1500m? And is there a physiological reason to to so? Or is it just to avoid boredom/staleness?

(I have almost never done sessions like that myself)

Yes. The 1500m could be 5000 pace and the 400 could be 1500 pace. The pace should be fast especially if you are focusing on 800. My rationale, is to practice running fast while somewhat fatigued (not exhausted though).

I agree with everyone else. Space these workouts out. Too many in one week and you will not gain the intended benefits. The trick with multi-pace training is to learn varying efforts and to stick to that pace.

here is the article where the quote is from:

http://www.serpentine.org.uk/pages/advice_frank13.html