Sub 1:51, sub 4:07, and sub 14:50 hopeful

Well if you want to run 4:07, a 14:50 shouldn't seem so hard. If you are training for the 5k and can run the mile in 4:07, you should be around 14:10. Also don't rely on paces for runs and workouts too much. They can be good for reference, but it's all about how you feel.

As for running 4:07, that's a big jump in one season, aim for like 4:15, 4:12, etc and work your way down. Do some indoor races to stay fresh.

whats the rest btwn intervals? need a solid goal for rest too

Looks like you're willing to train hard. Here's the most important advice I can give you:

Try running 1:53 before sub 1:51.

Try running 4:15 before sub 4:07.

Try breaking 15 before going sub 14:50.

If I was in your situation, I would be happy running any of these times and would have called it a successful season. You've gotta walk before you run.

If you have a college coach, why are you asking us?

I don't have a coach. I'm going to race the guys in late April-May to walk on next year. I've done some runs with the club team though, and the rest on my own.

older guy wrote:

Looks like you're willing to train hard. Here's the most important advice I can give you:

Try running 1:53 before sub 1:51.

Try running 4:15 before sub 4:07.

Try breaking 15 before going sub 14:50.

If I was in your situation, I would be happy running any of these times and would have called it a successful season. You've gotta walk before you run.

I agree with you guys on taking one step at a time. I just feel as though I'll make a big jump because I'm feeling strong and haven't started the bloody hard workouts 2x a week yet.

My recoveries are kept short on my intervals (30-45sec) 2min between sets. I'll longer my rest when I know I'm sharp.

i've run the times you want to run and im continuing to improve.

the main thing you should focus on is "race pace"

im not saying this is the right time of the year to start it, but i didn't hit target goals until i got comfortable with race paces in practice

for instance soph yr of college i could do a workout like 8x 400 w/ 2 min rest in 62-64 and i ran 4:11 for indoor mile

junior yr i could do 8x 400 w 90 seconds rest in 60-61 and i ran 4:04 for indooor mile.

senior yr i could do the same workout as junior yr except i could hit 58-60 and i ran 4:01.

as the season progresses i step this workout up by doing 6x 600 w/ 2 min rest keeping them around 1:31-33. then throw in a few 200s in 26-27 (also ran 1:48 for 800m)

so keep the easy days easy( some days that would be 6:10s or after workouts would be 6:40s just depends on how i felt)

and get used to race pace.. whatever race and goal u want to accomplish.

With 51 400m speed, reaching the 4:07 is largely dependent on your cruising speed. I'd cap your mileage at 50/week for now and begin adding in more quality overdistance. Not much point in hammering out the shorter stuff when 2:55-3:05 1000m reps would probably do the trick leaving you in much better position to benefit from speedwork. For now, you want your jogging speed to come down. I agree with Peter Coe about the importance of speed, however here you have an obvious deficiency on the stamina side which needs to be remedied. See Coe's comments on "undifferentiated athletes".... For now it might be better to think of yourself as pointing towards the 3000m, something in the 8:30 range. When 5' miles come more casually, you'll know you are getting close.

As for the strength and power work, here again I imagine you can find some alternative to plyometrics which provides benefits without nearly the risk. Far more important to get the quality miles under your belt. Here, pay attention instead to the fact that Coe kept track of his weight work in tons and much of this work preceded his intensive circuit training.

I never broke 1:56 for the 800, but keeping my mileage at about 80-90 after XC season, I went from 4:07 1500, 10:04 Steeple to 3:57 1500, 9:18 Steeple, 14:39 5K the following season.

Try something more like:

Monday. AM: 4 miles easy. PM: 7 miles easy.

Tuesday. AM: 4 miles easy. PM: 1 mile warm-up, 4-5 miles at 5:30 pace (in Feb.), 6 miles at 5:30 (in March), 4-5 miles at 5:20 pace (in April). 6 x 100 meter strides with full rest. Then 1 mile cool down.

Wednesday. AM: 4 miles easy. PM: 7 miles easy.

Thursday. AM: 4 miles easy. PM: 1 mile warm-up. Long intervals at 5k pace (remember Peter Coe calls stuff at 5k pace "golden") in Feb. and March. Try 5 x 1000 with 200 jogs in 3:05 and progress to 5 x 1200 in 3:36 by the end of March. Finish with 4 x 200 in 28-30. In April, start doing your 200s, 300s, and 400s.

Friday. AM: 4 miles easy. PM: 7 miles easy.

Saturday. AM: 4 miles easy. PM: 3 mile warm-up, 8 x 200 hills at a moderate effort, 3 mile cool down.

Sunday. 12 miles easy (in Feb.), 13-14 miles easy (in March), 12 miles easy (in April).

Changes from your plan:

(1) A little more mileage (closer to 75-80 per week)

(2) A tempo run every week (Tuesday)

(3) Long intervals early on (Feb. and March), then the faster stuff

(4) Make Saturday a little lighter (you already have Tues., Thurs., and Sunday as hard days).

(5) Include some hills (Saturday)

(6) Include some strides (after Tuesday's tempo and Thursday's long intervals).

(7) More progression: you're not as fit now, so the intervals and tempos might be slower.

Let's say you're 51 second 400 meter time is a pretty good indicator of your overall speed. That pegs your 100 time at around 12.3. Theoretically, your best 800 time would be 1:52.4, mile would be 4:08.8 and 2 mile 8:49.6. If you're 100 time is faster than 12.3, then these times also come down.

First things first, I'd forget most of the speed work and put in a short lactate threshold run on Tuesday and a longer lactate threshold run on Thursday. If I were a college coach, the one thing I would be interested in would be aerobic development. Right now, can you go out and run 10 miles at 5:30 pace? Can you run the 80+ weekly miles with the team? The speed work comes later, when you are actually on the track team.

Second thing, get out of the weight room. There is no study that shows lifting weights has improved the time of a distance runner. Since it doesn't show up in racing, all you are doing is A) increasing your muscle mass for non-running muscles (more weight = slower times), and B) increasing your risk of injury.

tdl87

What? Coe claimed that his 800m improved because of the weight/circuit work. He wasn't all that great at 800m as an 18 yo (relative to becoming a WR holder later), it is this work, in conjunction with the running, that did it. It also depends on the body build of the athlete, if he is naturally mesomorphic (Nick Symmonds) then he can get away with less strength work than the ectomorph, and needs a better base.

Reminds me of a local College runner (now graduated) who ran 800's (1.54 as a soph) who has regressed to 1.56-57 since he neither did any mileage (was told since he was fast - 50xx on a relay - he didn't need it) or weights (only 4 weeks a year between XC and indoor), he had an ectomorphic body type as well. BOTH are essential, the order of importance is based on natural speed and natural strength (mesomorph). This should be individually determined and not a blanket policy - everyone is different.

Weights shouldn't replace running training, but to say get out of the weight-room to do more running is silly. BUT, if the OP wants to stay in the middle-distances and be a player in the NCAA then he needs to get faster than 51sec for 400m. Just doing mileage won't make someone a better 800m runner - see Coe.

coe's pictured lifting in "winning running" and peter coe makes a big deal about its importance. explosive stuff for speed. I think that you're in early competition phase five (since you want to peak in May) in the coe book, which lasts two months. Some of the sessions recommended in a multipace regime over 14 day cycles are 4x1500m or 3x2000m at 5k pace, 8x800m @3k, 4x300m and 4x200m@400m pace.

I ran that quarter 51 my junior year in high school in beginning April as I checked my log. I didn't do any weight work until my senior year in Jan.

I haven't done any weight work on my legs, but now is not the time to start doing them (I should've started in late NOV-early DEC). I wait til next year to put them in.

I lift heavy/small reps (2-3sets of 6reps) in an quick/explosive state of manner for upper body. Also some dumbbell work with 10-12.5 lbs arm movement.

So you are saying that on one of your days, you want to run 4000m at a pace almost equal to your lifetime 800m best.

Good luck with that, bud.

I wouldn't go over 2k at 800 pace and I'd make sure it was done in reps that were short enough, with enough rest to allow recovery and relaxed running.

Somebody earlier mentioned 1500m and 2k intervals. These are probably a better investment of your main training energies. If you were only trying to run the 800, I'd say you didn't need so many, but since you have goals to perform well at up to 5k distances....you need the longer intervals.

You need some tempo efforts as well.