Ivy league Standards??? Help Please!

Unless you have filled out Brown's questionaire, they most likely don't know your grades. You are fast enough for Brown. You don't need perfect anything for the Ivy League. In fact, if you keep getting faster, they will get you in with even just moderate grades. And that rumor about no scholarships is just not true. They will give you financial aid if you are fast enough. They just don't call it a scholarship.

Each school is different, but don't for a second think you have to be PERFECT to get in. Keep improving running wise...have at least a 3.7, and do the best that you can on your SAT/ACT.

I went to an Ivy school, had a 3.2 with easy classes....1440 SAT, no extra curricular activities besides running. I was a pretty decent runner, and although it was never discussed - I know that the coach pulled strings to get me there.

I had a good experience where I went, but I think a smaller school would have fit me better- that's the key, go to a school that's a good fit, don't just attend an Ivy for the recognition.

I actually went to a smaller liberal arts school for my masters (weird order I know) and found my academic experience much richer..but then again I like to think that I was more wise..I wasn't focused on running...and I also had stopped partying.

You are young, but do you know what subjects you are interested in?

Fantastic times for a sophomore, especially that 5k, keep it up and you'll have great opportunities ahead of you! Feel free to ask anything else I might be able to help you with.

Thanks for the response! While we are on the topic, what are some of your thoughts on the different Ivy league schools? I know that Princeton is the best running wise, but in terms of the school itself are they generally pretty similar? If anyone has info about Brown it would help since I got a letter from them.

I don't necessarily agree that Princeton is the "best" running-wise. They often have great results, but that may be because of their recruiting; they may not be the best at developing talent.

Yes, there are a lot of differences. No, it probably won't matter very much in the end. Do yourself a favor and find a place where you'll be happy for the next four years. If you have specific interests, you may find that some of them are served better at some schools than others.

I'll be honest, I know very little about Brown. I do have a friend who is currently attending Brown, if you'd like, leave an email address and I'll forward it on to him. I'm not sure he's the best person to talk to since he tends to hate people and is completely inadequate when it comes to anything social....nonetheless, he can certainly help you better than I.

Surely you will have an opportunity to receive a great education at any of the Ivy League school if it is your desire, but certainly some schools are known to be stronger in certain departments.

A few quick 'facts' (mainly stereotypes)

Supposedly Brown student tend to be the happiest of the bunch. Very liberal school from what I hear.

Columbia-Big city.

Cornell- Easiest to get into, toughest to stay in. (little to no grad inflation). High suicide rate.

Dartmouth- Closest Ivy to being a LAC. Supposedly a pretty relaxed environment.

Harvard and Princeton...very comparable. Princeton tends to be ranked a few spots higher in the mathematics....Harvard in the arts and letters....

Penn- You could run at the relays (freaking sweet!)

Yale- They care more about their history than their future (not really, but sorta).

I'm pretty drunk right now so definitely take my advice

lightly as I could have very easily just given you a bunch of rubbish. Promise to check this tomorrow morning for an edit...if I remember....it is probably also worth noting that I only looked into Harvard and Princeton...

I'd say keep improving and go to Stanford. When it comes winter a lot of kids speak of transfer desires for not going to Cal Tech..Stanford...some even stoop as low to speak of Berkley and even USC/UCLA..

Remember I am drunk, I'm sure I've misspelled a bunch of shit - DO NOT JUDGE ME AS AN EXAMPLE OF AN IVY LEAGUE MAN

Like I said, it is all about fitting in, finding the right school. with your 5k time I'm sure any coach would be willing to fly you out for an official visit. Use them wisely...go the far and away ones, the schools you couldn't or wouldn't go to on your own dime.

Don't go to Yale...just don't...

Too many stereotypes...

The standards are a little more lax for the athletes, but not too much. You should still be in good academic standing (top 5-10% of class, decent-strong SATS, >3.5 GPA). Usually the schools post their incoming class profiles sometime during the summer, and considering how the number of applications are really high this year (32k for Harvard this year) the acceptance criteria might be tough for this recent round. It can't hurt to do the research though. Continue to fill out the questionnaires though.

As for Brown, from my understanding it is very liberal and there is good opportunity for people to take many electives. Providence is a pretty and artsy city, but there are parts that are iffy. 30-45 minutes to the good beaches. You can hop on the commuter rail to go into Boston on the weekends. There is typically more to do in Providence during the warmer months though.

There are definitely differences between the Ivys. For example, Columbia has a core curriculum based on reading classics that everyone must take. At Princeton everyone has to do a long senior thesis. Brown has no core or distribution requirements, you can structure your own major and can take most classes pass fail - very liberal. There is a book called Choosing the Right College that gives substantive info on curriculum for all these schools. It is written from a very conservative religious right point of view but still has much more useful info than something like the Princeton Review college guide.

Coaches definitely have pull if they want you. They can get you an early read and can get you in if you meet the school's minimum criteria. There have been several threads on this topic recently.

Is there a difference between Stanford and the Ivy's besides the weather? They both just seem like places where very very smart people go...other than the athletes of course

Not really...ever heard of Hypms?

Harvard

Yale

Princeton

MIT

Stanford

What I do know is that three of those schools were willing to bend the admissions in order to get me in, one of the schools...(cough, Stanford, cough) wasn't interested in me enough as a runner to sneak me in...and the other..MIT, would absolutely not consider helping me in the admissions process. There is no doubt in my mind I would have been at worst MIT's #2 runner that next fall as a freshman. I've always had mad respect for MIT. But man, the dorms are whack.

Just went thru this with two sons. Truth is..minority.

You better be a minority. 4.2 and 2400 no big deal. YOU BETTER BE A MINORITY! Then they will call you, give you

transportation to their Ivy and pay for everything. The standard then is about 1100 SAT and 1.8 GPA. MINORITY status is what you need. Also write all papers on, slavery, America's destruction of everything from the Alamo to poor Germany and Vietnam. Abuse of transsexuals, women in Vietnam, Gays and Lesbian oppression etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

Truth. wrote:

Just went thru this with two sons. Truth is..minority.

You better be a minority. 4.2 and 2400 no big deal. YOU BETTER BE A MINORITY! Then they will call you, give you

transportation to their Ivy and pay for everything. The standard then is about 1100 SAT and 1.8 GPA. MINORITY status is what you need. Also write all papers on, slavery, America's destruction of everything from the Alamo to poor Germany and Vietnam. Abuse of transsexuals, women in Vietnam, Gays and Lesbian oppression etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

So, I take it your boys were not accepted then....

Okay...I'll actually help. At my Ivy, here's how it works. I've got some time on my hands, so this will be pretty detailed:

Step #1 - Finding fast athletes.

1a) Massive mail-outs

The coaches and people who work in the track office collect results all year. They look through hundreds of meets and input everyone who hits certain time standards into a database. Letters are sent to every single person who meets those time standards along with a little card for the person to fill out with her grades, scores, etc. People who are interested in the school send back those cards, and those who look promising (which is a function of being fast and smart) are collected and held onto.

1b) Kids contacting the coaches

A lot of fast and smart people are missed on the massive mail-outs. So, a great number of the people who actually wind up attending the school contact the coaches through e-mail or phone and tell them how fast and smart they are. Promising athletes are remembered and coaches maintain communication.

Step #2 - Recruiting, pre-visit

The coaches then take the stack of promising athletes who they have collected via the massive mailouts and through the kid-initiated communication and call those kids. Coaches also call kids they think are particularly fast, even if they haven't sent back a card. Coaches pitch the school, learn more about the kid as a student and an athlete, and then will decide whether they want to invite the kid to the school for a visit. By this point in the process the coaches will know exactly who the people they are talking to are, exactly how fast they are, and exactly what their transcripts and scores are like.

Step #3 - Recruiting, the visit and calculating the "Academic Number"

If a coach invites an athlete on a visit, there's a very good chance the coach would like that athlete to attend the school. Coaches at my ivy need their recruiting classes to average a certain "Academic Number" which is calculated based on a kid's scores and transcript. A coach will ask an athlete to bring a copy of her transcript to the visit and the coach will then bring that transcript to the admissions office (along with the test scores) and the admissions office will assign that athlete an academic number (I'm not sure if this number fluctuates with other variables like minority status...it very well might). A team's recruiting class must average a certain number assigned to that sport. For XC/track the number tends to be relatively high, at the other end, Men's Hockey and Basketball are relatively low.

The bottom line is this: If the admissions office tells the coaches that they can have ~20 women receive admissions help, then the coaches will want to get ~20 women whose academic numbers average whatever the admissions office tells the coaches they have to average. What winds up happening is that the coaches will take some slower/smarter kids, and some faster/dumber kids, to make the academic number average out and get the team some really star athletes. Smart and fast is always the best combination, but you can still get in being really smart and a 9:40/4:25 guy, the same as you can get in being a 4:12 miler with 1750 SAT scores.

At the end of each kids visit, the coach will tell the kid what his or her chances of coming to the school are - normally really good if the coach has you come on the visit. Sometimes, our school will have to call a kid after the visit and tell him or her that it's best to look elsewhere since things aren't looking good...but that's normally not the case.

Kid's will then commit to attend the school, and the coaches will have to make sure that the kids committing are averaging the team's academic number. Sometimes, the coaches will have to give up dumb kids if they make the average fall too low.

So there you have it, the process from where you are now, to where things will wind up if you decide to attend an Ivy. For a sophomore girl, you're on the right track in terms of times. You could definitely get recruited off of these times alone. If you drop a some more time over the next couple of years, you could find yourself in the category of people who are fast enough to afford being on the not-as-smart side.

Good luck.

That's gotta be the most comprehensive ivy league recruiting post put up here in a while. Thanks.

What would 1650 as sophomore, perfect GPA, number 1 in class, and 30 on ACT

what schools would that appeal to?

A lot of D3 schools.

1650 Sat? That's f***ing terrible.

straight beastin yo wrote:

1650 Sat? That's f***ing terrible.

I think he's referring to 16:50 5k, since 1650 SAT doesn't really match a 30 ACT.

By the way, it is possible to dramatically improve SAT scores with a bit of study. I went to a poor rural high school and did terribly on the PSAT. 500's on each section. I studied vocabulary and did practice tests and was able to score 700+ on each SAT section a few months later. It's a game.