RENATO CANOVA: Linet Masai wants to improve her finishing speed?

Finishing speed is wayyyyy way overrated.

First of all, any runner must run the distance faster than the others to win.

at the highest levels where talent/times are very close in proximity, tactics play a huge roll in the races. the athletes are not running at their perfect maximum for the given distance and conditions on a day. they run in packs.

having the ability to run submaximally, withstand surges and be their in the end is very important. but once you have done that, you must be able to launch a finish with the best of them.

if you can't then you must break them earlier.

having all the tools in your tool chest available is the way to be most prepared.

.............................. wrote:

at the highest levels where talent/times are very close in proximity, tactics play a huge roll in the races. the athletes are not running at their perfect maximum for the given distance and conditions on a day. they run in packs.

having the ability to run submaximally, withstand surges and be their in the end is very important. but once you have done that, you must be able to launch a finish with the best of them.

if you can't then you must break them earlier.

having all the tools in your tool chest available is the way to be most prepared.

What the hell you guys no about speed?

Retard, you should've used "know" instead of no. Unless Linet Masai can run a 59-60 second last lap off a 30 min flat 10000m she will need to get away from as many ladies possible during the race.

In the 10000m I think Linet has the ability to possibly break everyone except Tirunesh Dibaba. At 2011 Worlds Linet should be prepared to work with her teammates to go 15 flat for the first 5000m then lay it all on the line in the second 5000m.

SimpleEnglish wrote:

Unless Linet Masai can run a 59-60 second last lap off a 30 min flat 10000m she will need to get away from as many ladies possible during the race.

Or the last mile in 4:15 in the attempt to open a gap fvrom the lead group to win.

or the last 5000m in 14:20. Or the 10000m in 29:20

The WR is a pace of 70.8 seconds per lap.

There is no need to run any faster than 70 to 72 seconds the last lap, to break the WR and win any race.

In fact, from memory, I think Brahaim Boutayeb ran the last 3 laps in 3:22 for his Olympic victory.

trying a few numbers, her likely current form is possibly

61.0/2'06.5 ->4'04.9 , 8'26.6 , 14'25.0 , 29'46.3

her 14'31 had usual poor 4th km & she couda got close to 14'25 if they had maintained a fast 4th km

her 10k is surprising - indicates if her endurance lasted "perfectly" to 10k, she coud approach 29'45, but it's very unlikely it does, but at very worst, she shoud be capable of <30 currently having watched her

her 400 speed is probably around 61s, which pales in comparison to 'thopys who coud probably go about 56

she may improve 1 or 2s over the years with more speedwork, but she will never get close to 56

ventolin^3 wrote:

trying a few numbers, her likely current form is possibly

61.0/2'06.5 ->4'04.9 , 8'26.6 , 14'25.0 , 29'46.3

her 14'31 had usual poor 4th km & she couda got close to 14'25 if they had maintained a fast 4th km

her 10k is surprising - indicates if her endurance lasted "perfectly" to 10k, she coud approach 29'45, but it's very unlikely it does, but at very worst, she shoud be capable of <30 currently having watched her

her 400 speed is probably around 61s, which pales in comparison to 'thopys who coud probably go about 56

she may improve 1 or 2s over the years with more speedwork, but she will never get close to 56

Agreed!

i owe linet an apology

it's a pain in backside trying so many 400/800 combos to find best one ( & i'm only going to nearest 0.25s in each )

she looks more like :

60.0/2'05.0 ->4'02.9 , 8'24.5 , 14'23.9 , 29'50.3

paula in '02 track season :

58.75/2'03.0 ->4'00.0 , 8'20.6 , 14'19.7 , 29'48.1

dibaba :

56.0/1'58.5 ->3'53.3 , 8'10.9 , 14'08.1 , 29'37.4

wang :

55.5/1'57.25 ->3'50.5 , 8'04.4 , 13'56.1 , 29'10.3

apart from paula, who ran solo 30'01 ( wouda been closer to 29'50 with pacers to 5km ), none of the others "lasted" to 10k as well as expected despite wang setting wr ( her best distance somewhere between 1.5 - 5k ), but linet has time

interestingly, there was probably only a ~ 0.5s difference in 400 speed between wang/dibaba but an ~ 1.25s difference in theoretical 800 ability made all the difference

note : these are prelim estimates & you'd need to spend a lot more time on them & take times down to 0.1s increments for 400 & 800

here are paula's actual pbs ( note the 400 ) :

http://www.paularadcliffe.com/stats/

if you buy her book, she mentions a 4'01tt in training around the millenium ( may have been '00 to '02 )

Vent

This thread is about Linet Masai and her closing speed not Paula Radcliffe! Linet best bet to medal at 2011 Worlds and 2012 Olympics is to work on her closing speed but she still defnitely need to try to break the field.

bump

Linet is one of my favorite athletes but if Tirunesh, Elvan A, and Meseret are fit and healthy at 2011 Worlds. The only chance Linet will have to defeat all three would be to gain over 4 seconds and hold it til the bell. I have no doubt Linet will be able to close in 61-62 but Tirunesh and Meseret can close in 58 even off a brutal pace.

It maybe easier to break Elvan and Meseret than Tirunesh but one strategy noone has tried against Tirunesh in the 10000m is hard, long, and numerous surges. From the gun keep the pace fast and throw in hard surges with as short as possible recovery. Any athlete trying this have 6 plus months to master the tactic. It may not work but it would be the best bet for any athlete who can close the last 400m in sub 60.

Why would Renato answer this question when it's concerning one of his star athletes and her quest to improve in an area against superior Ethiopians?

It's safe to say a heatlhy Tirunesh will not be outkicked by any woman in the 10000m. Not even Meseret and especially Linet can outkick Tirunesh over 10000m. If any lady want to beat Tirnuesh in the 10000m they better hope for an off day and get as far ahead of Tirunesh "the babyface destroyer" as they can before 400-600m to go!

based on those numbers and that good speed decay, do you think that masai could challenge paula's marathon times?

No Linet would have to improve drastically in the 1500m and 3000m and sub 14:25 and 29:40 to have any chance of threating Paula's Marathon WR. Tirunesh on the other hand have the ability/talent right now but could she handle the training needed to break Paula's marathon WR?

Linet has good people that give her advice. Everyone knows she is talented 10,000 runner. Problem is not in talent but in training practice.

Speed is only problem if Linet makes speed the issue. Smart runners, they know how to use what they are good at. Because Linet doesnt have plan for races, she will do the plan that other runners have.

Fartlek training is missing here for Linet. One can watch her race and know what problem is. I have other problems so i not get involved in Linet and her training program.

Renato Canova wrote:

Linet has good people that give her advice. Everyone knows she is talented 10,000 runner. Problem is not in talent but in training practice.

Speed is only problem if Linet makes speed the issue. Smart runners, they know how to use what they are good at. Because Linet doesnt have plan for races, she will do the plan that other runners have.

Fartlek training is missing here for Linet. One can watch her race and know what problem is. I have other problems so i not get involved in Linet and her training program.

...

Renato are you the coach of Linet Masai? If your suggesting that Masai best bet is to incorporate fartlek into her 10000m races I agree. Maintaing a fast pace and throwing in fartlek type surges seems best way to beat the Ethiopians in Championship 10000m races. We don't know if it would work as no female has been brave enough to try that strategy.