It doesn't look like it would be out of the question for Verzbicas to break 4 minutes in the mile this year, as well as go sub 14 minutes for 5000 meters. I can't find anyone who has pulled off this double in high school. I imagine many simply never tried. But if Verzbicas accomplishes this, where would that rank him on a list of all-time best high school distance runners?
Still behind Jim Ryun, that's for sure.
Also, I think he would need a record in something before he could be considered for high school GOAT.
Lindgren went 4:01 and 13:44 so Lukas would have to go significantly under 14 in addition to sub 4 if he wants to even approach Lindgren
So 3:59 and 13:59 doesn't even approach 4:01 and 13:44??
The 5k is a poor measure of greatness because it just isn't contested enough. Let's see if Lukas' PRs can even match German's one day 1600 + 3200 combined time.
Wise Guy wrote:
Still behind Jim Ryun, that's for sure.
Also, I think he would need a record in something before he could be considered for high school GOAT.
True ^.
I think that Webb's HS record also would rank him well ahead of LV (unless LV goes down to 3:57 and 13:40 or something, which I doubt he will).
Ryun:
1500: 3:39 , national record
mile: 3:55 and beat reigning olympic champion
Pre:
mile: 4:06
2 mile: 8:41.5, outdoor national record
5k: 13:52
Lindgren
mile: 4:01.5
2 mile: 8:40i , indoor national record
5k: 13:44
10K: 29:17.6 , qualified for olympics right out of high school
Verzbicas
mile: 4:04
5k: 14:18
conclusion:
Even if he goes 3:59 and 13:59....not even close.
Didn't Verbicas run 13:54 in the A-State Xc meet?
Yeah... wrote:
Didn't Verbicas run 13:54 in the A-State Xc meet?
Yes, on a course that is slightly shorter than 3 miles. Honestly...
XC=/=Track
I don't think just running very fast times would put him in the discussion for "best" prep runner, considering Ryun and Lindgren competed at the very highest level the sport had to offer while they were still in High school.
Even if he runs a 3:55 and a 13:30, he might be the fastest ever, but I don't think anyone can reasonably say he is the "best"
P.Whelan wrote:
I don't think just running very fast times would put him in the discussion for "best" prep runner, considering Ryun and Lindgren competed at the very highest level the sport had to offer while they were still in High school.
Even if he runs a 3:55 and a 13:30, he might be the fastest ever, but I don't think anyone can reasonably say he is the "best"
It was easier to do that 50 years ago. It still counts as something, but if LV did, say, 3:49 and 12:58 I'd give him GOAT status, even though those times might not be as good on the world scene as Ryun's and Lindgren's were.
Not that you don't have a point, but I see you neglected to mention that that 5K is the national indoor record. You also don't mention that it was set two years ago. Again, I'm not saying Verzbicas is in the same league as those guys - he isn't (yet?) - but the facts speak for themselves. Why try to skew them via omission?
P.Whelan wrote:
I don't think just running very fast times would put him in the discussion for "best" prep runner, considering Ryun and Lindgren competed at the very highest level the sport had to offer while they were still in High school.
Even if he runs a 3:55 and a 13:30, he might be the fastest ever, but I don't think anyone can reasonably say he is the "best"
I am not yet ready to crown LV as the GOAT (he may or may not be top ten at this point in my book).
But, IF he runs 3:55 AND 13:30 I think I would have to at least put him in the discussion. (BTW - I do not think that he will come very close to either of these times this year, let alone both).
Jim Ryun was the first high schooler under 4 and also the only one to ever do it as a junior. He beat Peter Snell who was the world record holder in the mile and 1500m champ. Still the greatest in my book
Considering Webb was good for at least 13:59 his senior year, I'd say no way.
Very few have ever tried this. In recent years, Rupp was probably the only person to attempt both of these.
Rupp 4:01/13:37
Lindgren 4:01/13:44
Pre 4:06/13:52
Ritz 4:05ish/13:44
Those seem to be the top ones who actually did it. But as far as versatility over both of these distances, Webb would probably have been the best at it. Verzbicas would have to go pretty far under or pretty far under 14, or both, to put him up there.
giffypop17 wrote:
Considering Webb was good for at least 13:59 his senior year, I'd say no way.
Very few have ever tried this. In recent years, Rupp was probably the only person to attempt both of these.
Rupp 4:01/13:37
Lindgren 4:01/13:44
Pre 4:06/13:52
Ritz 4:05ish/13:44
Those seem to be the top ones who actually did it. But as far as versatility over both of these distances, Webb would probably have been the best at it. Verzbicas would have to go pretty far under or pretty far under 14, or both, to put him up there.
Too bad a kid from Riverbank, Cali in 2008 did not get to run the mile and 5k against pros. He would have done it. He did run 3:55i and 13:25 outdoors at an age where most 18 year-olds are seniors, but he was already a freshmen in in college and a NCAA 1500 meter champ.
oldoldrunner wrote:
Too bad a kid from Riverbank, Cali in 2008 did not get to run the mile and 5k against pros. He would have done it. He did run 3:55i and 13:25 outdoors at an age where most 18 year-olds are seniors, but he was already a freshmen in in college and a NCAA 1500 meter champ.
Stop obsessing about a kid from Riverbank CA. He did what he did in HS. No more. No less.
wellidunno wrote:
oldoldrunner wrote:Too bad a kid from Riverbank, Cali in 2008 did not get to run the mile and 5k against pros. He would have done it. He did run 3:55i and 13:25 outdoors at an age where most 18 year-olds are seniors, but he was already a freshmen in in college and a NCAA 1500 meter champ.
Stop obsessing about a kid from Riverbank CA. He did what he did in HS. No more. No less.
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When Verzbicas runs 3:59 and 8:33 on the same day without a pacer then you can call him a GOAT.
As I recall Verzbicas got his but spanked pretty good last spring by a couple of HS junior runners in the 2-mile. He is not running 3:55 and 13:30 as a High Schooler.
Wait, wait, he is not longer competing in HS comp. So this thread should he dead.
Wait, wait, he is not longer competing in HS comp. So this thread should he dead.[/quote]
Correction: he is no longer competing for HIS high school. His marks still count as HS marks, just like last year.
He was good for it? So, he doesn't have to run it to get credit for it? Did you by any chance have anything to do with Obama's Nobel Peace Prize?
giffypop17 wrote:
Considering Webb was good for at least 13:59 his senior year, I'd say no way.