high mileage and weights => can you gain muscles???

My question is, since running 2+ hours at a time supposedly causes one to incorporate fast twitch fibers (says Snell), can one become absolutely jacked by running hours at a time, day after day (provided caloric intake is extremely high)?

Ikke wrote:

For those 20+ is it possible to gain muscle weight on a high mileage program?

Difficult, but for best results:

1) Train correctly

2) Sleep enough. If you are waking up to the sound of an alarm clock, you are not sleeping enough.

3) Eat enough, esp enough protein (1+ gram/lb of bodyweight/day) and fat, esp. saturated fat.Avoid wheat, fructose.

This is just my personal experience, but I've found it to be fairly difficult. I was running about 100 a week, not training for anything, and decided I'd work on some upper-body strength. I started working out, and got fairly stronger, but plateaued pretty quick. Later I was running about 70 and still couldn't get anywhere. Later I dropped down to about 50 and started having more success. Even at 50 I have to eat a lot of junk food just to maintain enough weight to not look like a cancer patient, much less put on any muscle.

some people tend to put on muscle faster and easier than others, so experiment, if you're running a lot you're not going to look like a body builder but you may put on muscle.

Here's my semi-professional opinion:

It's gonna be very hard to gain a lot of muscle running that much. Doing a lot of cardio (I.e., running) will cause a buildup of cortisol, a catabolic hormone, meaning it breaks down tissue. Plus, your caloric intake would have to be extremely high to pack on muscle and you have to stimulate your muscles in the right way. And as someone else mentioned, you'd have to get a lot of sleep. Genetics will also make a big difference. So there are a lot of factors, but chances are, no you won't bulk up too much on very high mileage.

When I was in my 20's I ran 90 to 100 miles a week, and also wasn't really training for anything. I began to lift 3 days a week, and was able to gain muscle going from 130 lbs to around 150 in about a year. I did lots of reps and did a lot of heavy weights. I looked great as the running kept my body fat ultra low, and the weights gave me a ton of definition. The downside was that when I did the occasional road 10K, I know that extra 20 lbs had to slow me down. The worst part was that I was probably in the best aerobic shape of my life, but never optimized my race times due to the lifting.

Yes, you can gain muscle mass if you keep all the workouts under an hour, both weights and running. If you need to do a two hour run, stop and eat carbs and protein after the first and second hour. Muscle breakdown (loss) is greatly accelerated after the first hour of any activity because of the drop in blood sugar, which makes your body produce cortisol. Cortisol is the body's trigger to break down stored fat and protein to keep blood sugar from dropping.

Doug Heffernan wrote:

Here's my semi-professional opinion:

It's gonna be very hard to gain a lot of muscle running that much. Doing a lot of cardio (I.e., running) will cause a buildup of cortisol, a catabolic hormone, meaning it breaks down tissue.

This reminds me of the early days of women's bodybuilding (~30 years ago?), when many of the top competitors had "day jobs" at gyms, typically as aerobics instructors.

As a result they were doing hours of cardio, several days a week. They found it difficult to gain muscle, despite working very hard on their lifting. Their nutrition mostly seemed to go toward fueling their aerobic work, not toward building muscle.

As always, different things work for different people, but a lot of ectomorphic-type distance runners--who would find it difficult to gain muscle under any circumstances--are going to find it nearly impossible to combine high mileage and muscle building.

Fortunately, it's still possible to get stronger, if not significantly more muscular, while running big miles. Use a limited number of (preferably) multiple-joint exercises; a limited number of sets per body part; low reps (say 2-5, depending); and the heaviest weight that you can manage, consistent with a) safe, controlled form, and b) balanced development of the muscles on both sides of a joint.

2-5 reps is about 1/2-1/3 of the optimal rep range for hypertrophy. As a "rule of thumb," 80% of your 1RM in any particular exercise is likely to be close to optimal for hypertrophy. For example, Bobby can squat 300lbs once, therefore Bobby does his working set with 240lbs.

lol lol lol lol wrote:

Fortunately, it's still possible to get stronger, if not significantly more muscular, while running big miles. Use a limited number of (preferably) multiple-joint exercises; a limited number of sets per body part; low reps (say 2-5, depending)

2-5 reps is about 1/2-1/3 of the optimal rep range for hypertrophy.[/quote]

Yes, of course you're right. Apologies for my miscommunication--my point was that ectomorphs who run distance *shouldn't* want to get more muscular (= heavier => lower power/weight ratio); but that they could make significant strength gains (and minimal gains in hypertrophy) by following the routine I proposed, which puts more emphasis on development of the central nervous system.

It would be ridiculously difficult to get bulked enough to enter a bodybuilding competition while running 100+, but it would be dramatically less difficult to get REASONABLY ripped while running 100+. Settle for the slim-yet-somewhat-muscular physique and both your social and running live's will thrive. Believe it or not, the majority of attractive women find the slim-yet-somewhat-muscular physique to be pretty close to optimal as far as sexiness. Or at least find it reasonably attractive, if not close to optimal.

I would link pictures to ripped guys who run a lot/are fast distance runners but I'm on my phone. Examples include Dean K (pretty ripped and runs a lot, like him or not), Alan Webb (not a high mileage guy I know, but still ran a 27:34 pretty close to when he was super ripped), and Adam Goucher (use google and you will find a pic of him running, pretty darn ripped. Not sure how fast he was or how much mileage he was doing when it was taken but rest assured he was probably very fast compared to most). I just listed three guys, and Dean K is a clear and absolute refutation of the "if you do a lot of very long runs you can't build any muscle". I know Dean K isn't huge but he's reasonably ripped if you do a google search.

Bottom line: the slim-yet-muscular physique is quite attractive do hot girls if you do it right, and there's loads of fast guys who run a lot that have achieved it.

All your problems solved.

runner180 wrote:

When I was in my 20's I ran 90 to 100 miles a week, and also wasn't really training for anything. I began to lift 3 days a week, and was able to gain muscle going from 130 lbs to around 150 in about a year. I did lots of reps and did a lot of heavy weights. I looked great as the running kept my body fat ultra low, and the weights gave me a ton of definition. The downside was that when I did the occasional road 10K, I know that extra 20 lbs had to slow me down. The worst part was that I was probably in the best aerobic shape of my life, but never optimized my race times due to the lifting.

Functional muscle won't slow you down, fat will slow you down

Randy savage wrote:

runner180 wrote:

When I was in my 20's I ran 90 to 100 miles a week, and also wasn't really training for anything. I began to lift 3 days a week, and was able to gain muscle going from 130 lbs to around 150 in about a year. I did lots of reps and did a lot of heavy weights. I looked great as the running kept my body fat ultra low, and the weights gave me a ton of definition. The downside was that when I did the occasional road 10K, I know that extra 20 lbs had to slow me down. The worst part was that I was probably in the best aerobic shape of my life, but never optimized my race times due to the lifting.

Functional muscle won't slow you down, fat will slow you down

Putting a bunch of upper body mass on is not functional muscle.

I have done it. Basically I consume about 200 to 250 mg of protein a day. I lift hard and I run a lot.

put more miles in and do alot of core work instead of lifting alot of weights, and you'll be better, and look better, the hugenormous look makes you look like a tool