I'm taking the introductory CS sequence, liking it and strongly considering majoring in it. What are the pros and cons of trying to land a job out of school? I'm reasonably, but not extremely bright, and I think I will make a 3.0 - 3.3 average. Thoughts?
GPAs & schools don't mean much around here, just hard work. Some of the best R&D guys that work for me didn't do to college, or majored in non-tech.
The bulk of the SW jobs are outsourced now to India, Pakistan, Iran, and China. Web Script writing has some niches here but for the most part jobs are scare and wages are low for Web scripters.
Better if you are an EE and do hardware: digital, analog, RF, uWave, circuits, interconnects, or work on systems CPLD/SoC/ASIC.
you hafta be a freaking genius to do EE
Only crap work is outsourced. My company (we build and sell software, located in Silicon Valley) hires entry level CS but only from well known schools (ivy), otherwise you could get picked up as a junior developer after a few years experience.
A couple years experience and we pay ~80K. Senior folks 100 to 120.
you hafta be a freaking genius to do EE
Not nowadays with cramster, coursehero, ... I went to school after the I was in the Crotch in Nam during the mainframe days before there was CS. I did Math and EE. They key in those days is hanging out with the frat boys and getting help from the blue bloods.
How about computer engineering? That has some EE but is not quite as hardcore.
CompE concentrates on Digital EE & Computer Arch. I don't know if it's a hot major. I would not think so since buses and interconnects are integrated in SoC, multicores. I survived the dot.com crash because I studied EE in school.
In the old days many SW guys studied music, math, economics. Those days are over. SW hasn't been hot atall in 8 years. There's still SW people needed but as not much in the USA anymore.
The technology focus is on Linux and Open Source. Central Asia and Eastern Europe are close to taking the lead role in Open Source. Many of the most complex and leading edge SW is being done in low cost markets like India, Pakistan, Iran, Russia, Hungary, Israel. Virtualization, Multicore OS, Carrier Grade Linux included.
The US still has some great innovations like ZFS, but lately only a few. The heyday of SW companies is over. There's still big names around here like FB, Google, Flickr, Twitter, ...
Overall SW jobs are 1/10th of what it was 15 years ago. The parking lots are empty everwhere in Silicon Valley. Weeds growing. Auto dealers have folded along Stevens Ck, El Camino, etc.
Kids tell me that at SJ State U, CS and EE are not hot anymore. Mechanical is hot. Civil E and Power E (both suprisingly) are hot due to the retirements of the Baby Boomers.
sw ee wrote:
My company (we build and sell software, located in Silicon Valley) hires entry level CS but only from well known schools (ivy)
What kind of company prefers CS majors from Ivy League schools over MIT, Stanford, Indian Institutes of Technology, Berkeley, University of Illinios, Georgia Tech, Carnegie Mellon, University of Washington ....
There are fields of CS that are still good, but I agree that going EE or CE is a much better option.
The heat and humidity in India would be brutal on your running.
You can make EE much easier by taking your diversity (English, anthropology...) classes in the summer and spreading your EE classes over 5 years. If you go to an in-state school, it will still cost less than a private school.
Care to post where you are getting that 1/15th number? I would be shocked if there were not about the same amount of software jobs now as their were in 2000. There is a lot of work being done overseas. There is also a ton being done in the US.
Silly Valley wrote:
CompE concentrates on Digital EE & Computer Arch. I don't know if it's a hot major. I would not think so since buses and interconnects are integrated in SoC, multicores. I survived the dot.com crash because I studied EE in school.
In the old days many SW guys studied music, math, economics. Those days are over. SW hasn't been hot atall in 8 years. There's still SW people needed but as not much in the USA anymore.
The technology focus is on Linux and Open Source. Central Asia and Eastern Europe are close to taking the lead role in Open Source. Many of the most complex and leading edge SW is being done in low cost markets like India, Pakistan, Iran, Russia, Hungary, Israel. Virtualization, Multicore OS, Carrier Grade Linux included.
The US still has some great innovations like ZFS, but lately only a few. The heyday of SW companies is over. There's still big names around here like FB, Google, Flickr, Twitter, ...
Overall SW jobs are 1/10th of what it was 15 years ago. The parking lots are empty everwhere in Silicon Valley. Weeds growing. Auto dealers have folded along Stevens Ck, El Camino, etc.
Kids tell me that at SJ State U, CS and EE are not hot anymore. Mechanical is hot. Civil E and Power E (both suprisingly) are hot due to the retirements of the Baby Boomers.
asdfasdfas wrote:
Care to post where you are getting that 1/15th number? I would be shocked if there were not about the same amount of software jobs now as their were in 2000. There is a lot of work being done overseas. There is also a ton being done in the US.
+1
CompE grad from 1993, worked in NYC and Boston. Have not seen any decline in number of jobs. Plenty of work. Just got offered a new job with no interview/resume and I wasn't even looking. Haven't updated my resume since mid 90s.
You want a high-paying, in-demand major? Plastics. Actually, Nuclear Engineering. Few have majored in NE for decades because of the environmental regulatory barriers to Nuke Power in the US. It's coming back, guaranteed.
Decades ago I did 5 years as an intern and employee at a major radio company. After, I've always started ventures and consulted with them. I'd say from the top of my head that the high potential S/W ops in Silicon Valley are about 1/10 of what it was 10 years ago. Scripts writing is the biggest area that still gets attention, but the focus for leading edge SW has moved to Central Asia and Eastern Europe. Since the 2002 timeframe, HW, RF, uW is what I invest and work actively on now. If I knew something about MechE, BioE, GeneticE I would look at doing that, but I'm devoid in those areas.
You want a high-paying, in-demand major? Plastics. Actually, Nuclear Engineering. Few have majored in NE for decades because of the environmental regulatory barriers to Nuke Power in the US. It's coming back, guaranteed.Power E & Nuke E is making a comeback because the baby boomers (like me) are retiring now. In the 70s there were alot of Iranians who did NukeE because of the Shah's government. I've worked with hundreds of Iranians here on SW/EE/RF projects, many of whom are trained as NukeEs.
My experience is the opposite. There are 10x as many software jobs doing mobile computing in 2010 as there were in 1999. If your a good software guy,t here will be great jobs. If your average, I wouldn't enter the field.
Silly Valley wrote:
Decades ago I did 5 years as an intern and employee at a major radio company. After, I've always started ventures and consulted with them. I'd say from the top of my head that the high potential S/W ops in Silicon Valley are about 1/10 of what it was 10 years ago. Scripts writing is the biggest area that still gets attention, but the focus for leading edge SW has moved to Central Asia and Eastern Europe. Since the 2002 timeframe, HW, RF, uW is what I invest and work actively on now. If I knew something about MechE, BioE, GeneticE I would look at doing that, but I'm devoid in those areas.
No there isn't.
Mobile is old tech. JavaME has been out for 15 years and dominates mobile. Oracle has sued Google to force upward compatibility of JME with Android and is very close to winning out-of-court, which will ensure JavaMEs dominance.
10 years ago there were many hot areas of SW & FW R&D in Silicon Valley, mobile included. Now only iPh/Android is hot and that means empty parking lots everywhere.
Take a drive down Centrtal Expr, Middlefield Rd, Kifer, Arques, El Camino, Maude, DeAnza, ... and you see tilt-ups with empty parking lot after empty parking lot. Those were building held SW jobs, 10 years ago, and now most are empty buildings.
Plus that, from my (EE/RF/CE/SW) perspective, the fundamental breakthru which has enabled Mobile/4G jobs here is the High Speed DAC (D/A Converter), and not digital or SW. MatE's, SemiE's and Semi Physicists would have an entirely different perspective. You'd have to ask them since I can't fathom how they do the tricks that they do ;-)
JAVA ME came out in 2000 (i.e. not 15 years ago) and doesn't dominate the mobile market (Android doesn't use it, Nokia doens't use it, Android doesn't use it, Palm/HP doesn't use it, Microsoft doesn't use it. I don't think RIMM does either but it has been a long time since I cared). It has been dropping for years as feature phones fade into irrelevance. As far as the lawsuit I wouldn't expect to see anything for 5+ years. The suits take forever.10 years ago was a bad time in valley with the dot com bust and all. The office park I worked in had 1 company where there were 2 years ago. Even then it was still easy to get a software job. Recruiters still called every other week. Today it is no different. There are empty officies but a lot of them were never occupied (every time the valley booms there is a building rush. Then when it contracts everyone comments on how many empty offices there are). Others are for different sized business (not many software companies need a campus that was build for 2000 employees).
Silly Valley wrote:
No there isn't.
Mobile is old tech. JavaME has been out for 15 years and dominates mobile. Oracle has sued Google to force upward compatibility of JME with Android and is very close to winning out-of-court, which will ensure JavaMEs dominance.
10 years ago there were many hot areas of SW & FW R&D in Silicon Valley, mobile included. Now only iPh/Android is hot and that means empty parking lots everywhere.
Take a drive down Centrtal Expr, Middlefield Rd, Kifer, Arques, El Camino, Maude, DeAnza, ... and you see tilt-ups with empty parking lot after empty parking lot. Those were building held SW jobs, 10 years ago, and now most are empty buildings.