Bravo Baseball Writers!!!!!

Agree, but don't you think there is a eal good chance tht Alomar was as roided up as the rest of them? Look at his behavioral patterns and his huge drop off with the coming of drug testing.

I'm not sure Bagwell should be lumped in with 'roid users

Seems like just about anyone can get into the HOF these days, and the baseball writers have too much power to vote down guys they don't like on a personal level. I'm pretty sure Dave Parker is as deserving as a lot of guys already in the HOF, but he'll never get the writers' votes because he was a dick when he was a player.

Minimum standards also need to be established. Perhaps....

Pitchers with 300 wins and/or 3000 strikeouts and/or 450 saves, etc. Hitters with 500 homers and/or 3000 hits and/or 1500 RBI, etc.

Definitely, anyone with 4,256 hits should be in.

I have very mixed feeling about the voting process. I'm very happy they have such low votes for McGwire and Palmeiro--they both definitely used steroids. I am not sure what to think about Bagwell--there is really absolutely no proof and nobody willing to go on record as saying that he used. Seems very arbitrary to keep a guy out based on backroom whispering. I guess that is what it has come to, though.

I am suspicious these days about claims that anybody was clean. I have no idea about Alomar. I also have no idea about somebody like Ken Griffey, Jr. I've frequently heard people defend that he was clean but I don't know how anybody could possibly know that with any degree of confidence.

Before anyone compliments the voters, remember, these are the same people that voted Gary Carter into the Hall.

Gary f***ing Carter, proof that if you play in NY and kiss enough writer ass, the above average can worm their way in with the greats.

McGwire probably didn't want to be elected. After all, he doesn't want, "to talk about the past. I just want to focus on the future."

Good thing he won't have to reflect on his past.

Baseball is doped and is a sham.

Insane Idiot wrote:

I'm not sure Bagwell should be lumped in with 'roid users

LOL!

Jeff Bagwell is my brother.

Agreed...but.... wrote:

Seems like just about anyone can get into the HOF these days, and the baseball writers have too much power to vote down guys they don't like on a personal level. I'm pretty sure Dave Parker is as deserving as a lot of guys already in the HOF, but he'll never get the writers' votes because he was a dick when he was a player.

Minimum standards also need to be established. Perhaps....

Pitchers with 300 wins and/or 3000 strikeouts and/or 450 saves, etc. Hitters with 500 homers and/or 3000 hits and/or 1500 RBI, etc.

Definitely, anyone with 4,256 hits should be in.

Well that would make things simpler. In about 5 years we'd be done with pitchers forever since 300 game winners will be a thing of the past.

The only question about Pete is will he have to wait to get in posthumously - eventually, he will go in.

b.s. since the players are dopers

It's all so messy now. Everything fueled on rumors. Really sucks to be a fan of baseball.

I think minimum standards just aren't feasible. You wind up with 'compilers' who rack up numbers with extended careers but no real star power. And the game evolves. A 20 home run per year guy now is different than 40 years ago. Similar with pitchers.

I had hoped Bagwell would make it. Rumors.

djyr wrote:

Before anyone compliments the voters, remember, these are the same people that voted Gary Carter into the Hall.

Gary f***ing Carter, proof that if you play in NY and kiss enough writer ass, the above average can worm their way in with the greats.

Wrong. Gary Carter, without a doubt, was the best catcher of his time. That's exactly who should go into the hall.

what's with the talk that 300 game winners are in the past?

pitchers have millions of reasons to hang on and surgery gives them a chance to come back from injuries that would have once ended their careers. and players can still win fifteen games for twenty seasons, as exemplified by Maddux, Clemens, Glavine, and Randy Johnson in recent years. What are you talking about? It didn't make sense to say after Maddux and Clemens did it and it doesn't make sense to say now. As to who the next ones are, it may be awhile and with fewer starts and fewer decisions, because of relievers, it is harder than prior to the 70s, but there will be more.

The next one may not be so long. Jamie Moyer has 267 wins right now.

jjjjjjjjjj wrote:

what's with the talk that 300 game winners are in the past?

I started to write an example of how, in the past, 4-man rotations offered extra starts and, consequently, greater opportunity for wins in a season than the current 5-man rotations, but instead I'll link to an article in Baseball Prospective discussing the relative merits of 4-man vs 5-man rotations:

From the article: "the average "ace" starter made 37.3 starts in 1973, but only 33.2 starts in 1999 - a dropoff of 4.1 starts. Number two starters lost almost as many starts (3.4), and #3 starters lost 1.3 starts apiece."

Assuming the #1 starters are the most likely to approach 300 wins than #2 or #3 starters, and assuming the typical MLB career of a 300-game or near-300-game pitcher is 15 years, then a pitcher in a 4-man rotation receives the benefit of 60 more starts over the course of his 15-year career - pitchers in a 5-man rotation would need almost an extra 2 years to reach the same number of games started.

Now I'm not saying we'll never see any more 300 game winners, but I do believe that until (if ever) teams return to 4-man rotations it is far less likely that a current pitcher will reach 300 wins than in the past.

[quote]VF Runner wrote:

Well that would make things simpler. In about 5 years we'd be done with pitchers forever since 300 game winners will be a thing of the past.

quote]

C.C.Sabathia

He is more than halfway there and has NEVER had any arm injuries. He got a great start very young , became a pitcher instead of thrower, and plays with the Yankees who will always spend money for the best hitters.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

The next one may not be so long. Jamie Moyer has 267 wins right now.

Jamie Moyer is 48 years old. He will not get 33 more wins.

Bagwell has never been linked to steroids. He should be in. Griffey should also be a first ballot no-doubter 100%.

McGwire should also be in.

Palmeiro should not be in because although he compiled great stats, it was a result of longevity which is not a synonym for greatness, and by that reasoning none of Blyleven, Dawson, Gary Carter or Jim Rice should be in.

Fwiw, Pete Rose should not be in. He bet on his team to lose. That is different than using steroids to make yourself better. Remember that baseball was not testing for steroids during that time frame. If a substance is not being tested for...I know a lot of runners who would do the same thing to be great