The 2011 Indoor National Standards still is not available (and obviously not Outdoors). This is inexcusable and beyond unprofessional. There is a whole group of athletes/coaches that need to know these things so they can start making race schedules and making travel plans.
John Chaplin. USATF webmaster. That's the hold-up.
If they had them up by this point it would be a record. They haven't had them up before mid to late january in at least the 4 years.
asolutely dumbfounded wrote:
The 2011 Indoor National Standards still is not available (and obviously not Outdoors). This is inexcusable and beyond unprofessional. There is a whole group of athletes/coaches that need to know these things so they can start making race schedules and making travel plans.
I do think it's ridiculous that they are not posted yet, but the people who really need to know these things know how to get ahold of the someone in the men's or women's development staff to find out what the standards are.
No one's race schedules or travel plans are being held up by a lack of standards. Give me a break. If someone is borderline, their travel plans are being held up by the fact that there have barely been any open indoor meets yet, so barely anyone would be qualified at this point.
Does anybody know the standards for the mens races 800 and up? are there any changes from last year?
Polevaultpower - It is indeed inexcusable and ridiculous not to have the standards posted by now. The qualifying window has generally been between mid November and mid or late February (Nov 14 2009 to Feb 21 2010 for the last indoor season) and indoor track meets allowing open runners have been going on since the beginning of December.
That's a dangerous perspective. If you're important enough things are OK. Not everyone is in the know and this sport needs to expand horizons not confine.
PV Power, please don't act as an apologist for USATF, be you a shill or not. For our national governing body to lack published standards is a gross lapse of respect and professionalism. What if a coach needs to tailor training or competition schedules to hit a mark? Are we all supposed to guess what standards an athlete 'not in the know' will need to compete on a national stage?
Lack of standards for indoors, six weeks away, is unfathomable. Outdoors is still embarrassing. Why are any of us surprised though?
Find good meets.
Run as fast as you can.
Looking at the standards for the last two championships should give you a clue.
Qualifying window: November 14, 2009 - February 21, 2010
Men Standard
60m 6.75
50m 5.76
55m 6.23
400m 47.40
800m 1:50.20
1000m 2:23.90
1500m 3:44.60
Mile 4:01.20
3000m 8:03.00
5000m 14:07.00
60m Hurdles 7.92
50m Hurdles 6.86
55m Hurdles 7.32
5000m Race Walk 22:00.00
3000m Race Walk 12:45.00
High Jump 2.20 m
Pole Vault 5.50 m
Long Jump 7.54 m
Triple Jump 15.39 m
Shot Put 18.08 m
Weight Throw 19.81 m
Women Standard
60m 7.55
50m 6.30
55m 6.90
400m 55.00
800m 2:08.50
1500m 4:30.00
Mile 4:47.50
3000m 9:27.00
5000m 16:00.00
60m Hurdles 8.50
50m Hurdles 7.00
55m Hurdles 7.70
3000m Race Walk 14:40.00
Mile Race Walk 7:30.0
High Jump 1.81 m
Pole Vault 4.25 m
Long Jump 6.10 m
Triple Jump 12.75 m
Shot Put 15.00 m
Weight Throw 19.00 m
Qualifying window: November 15, 2008 - February 22, 2009
Men Standard
60m 6.75
50m 5.76
55m 6.23
400m 47.40
800m 1:50.20
1000m 2:23.90
1500m 3:44.60
Mile 4:01.20
3000m 8:03.00
5000m 14:07.00
60m Hurdles 7.92
50m Hurdles 6.86
55m Hurdles 7.32
5000m Race Walk 22:00.00
3000m Race Walk 12:45.00
High Jump 2.15 m
Pole Vault 5.50 m
Long Jump 7.54 m
Triple Jump 15.39 m
Shot Put 18.08 m
Weight Throw 19.81 m
Women Standard
60m 7.50
50m 6.25
55m 6.85
400m 54.75
800m 2:08.50
1500m 4:25.64
Mile 4:46.14
3000m 9:28.00
5000m 16:00.00
60m Hurdles 8.50
50m Hurdles 7.00
55m Hurdles 7.70
3000m Race Walk 14:40.00
High Jump 1.81 m
Pole Vault 4.14 m
Long Jump 6.07 m
Triple Jump 12.75 m
Shot Put 15.00 m
Weight Throw 19.00 m
Ask, and ye shall receive...
http://www.usatf.org/events/2011/USAIndoorTFChampionships/entry/qualifyingStandards.asp
I do think it's inexcusable to not have the standards up sooner. I think they should be finalized and published sooner than the USATF annual meeting. I have no idea why 3+ weeks lapsed between them being ostensibly finalized at the meeting and getting published.
But I don't think it's the major crisis that the drama queens on here make it out to be. I've posted in several threads how anyone who needs to wants to know the exact standards could have obtained them before they were published.
Now that they are published, are there any surprises? Anyone need to change their training plans? Anyone wishing they could go back and change their training/meet schedule?
polevaultpower wrote:
Now that they are published, are there any surprises? Anyone need to change their training plans? Anyone wishing they could go back and change their training/meet schedule?
ummm yes. I think the mens 5k qualifier to run the 3k getting 37 seconds faster is quite a suprise... that could really affect somebodys training.
ummm..... wrote:
ummm yes. I think the mens 5k qualifier to run the 3k getting 37 seconds faster is quite a suprise... that could really affect somebodys training.
You're right, that is a big change... but who is going to dramatically change their training to peak at indoor nationals in a year when it doesn't qualify for anything, while the outdoor meet does?
Also, the 3k standard itself didn't change... so just go run a 3k instead of a 5k, no? Are there that many meets that have a 5k and no 3k?
If you can run 14:00, but you can't run 13:30 in time for indoors, wouldn't it make more sense to just focus on peaking for outdoors when it matters more? Plus, indoors is at altitude, so no distance runner is going to run a good time once they get there. I don't think any sponsors really care about performance there either. I can't imagine someone earning a shoe contract based on performance in Albuquerque.
The prize money at the meet only went down to four places last year, and I don't imagine it will be much different this year. If you're barely qualifying, you probably don't have a great shot at the prize money.
My guess is they felt that someone who could run a 14:07 but couldn't break 8:03 didn't deserve to go. Also, last year only four athletes entered with a 5k time that is slower than 13:30. Most of the field entered with 3k times.
I am not a distance runner, but this doesn't look like a major crisis to me...
PVP, you're a good poster and have given a lot back to the sport, but you're both contradicting yourself and coming across as a huge USATF apologist.
Someone having to change their plans from racing a 5,000m to a 3,000m may very likely have to change meets--a lot of meets only have one or the other.
Saying people not fast enough to run 13:30 should peak for outdoors "when it matters more" is patronizing. Also, for someone who I think has a decent knowledge of distance running such as yourself, it shows limited understanding of how distance training cycles work; you can't just decide to move a peak from January or February to April, May, or June.
Runners running at a national championship don't usually care about time. They care about place. The meet being at altitude may deter some from competing, but it won't be because they're worried they'll run slow times there. Also, a good finish in any race with a national profile may attract some sponsor attention; that may be part of the reason indoor nationals is so appealing to some, because despite its watered-down fields, it's still a national championship and is a chance to earn some attention while some of the top-tier names train through.
I agree with what you say about prize money.
I agree this ("this" meaning the quicker 5,000m qualifier and the late notice) isn't a huge deal--which is why I think that it is weird that someone who is usually as sensible as yourself is repeatedly and vehemently going through such strange contortions to defend it.
Agree that PVP is a good poster but don't like his apologist tone in this thread nor the pedantic tone toward athletes striving to qualify.
For kicks, i googled "usa swimming national championships qualifying standards" and immediately found standards for the 2011 national championships and 2012 trials.
The saddest thing is that this thread no doubt influenced USATF to get off their rear end and publish these standards.
What are you guys talking about?? They've been up for weeks.
http://www.usatf.org/events/2011/USAIndoorTFChampionships/entry/qualifyingStandards.asp
Greene wrote:
Agree that PVP is a good poster but don't like his apologist tone in this thread nor the pedantic tone toward athletes striving to qualify.
For kicks, i googled "usa swimming national championships qualifying standards" and immediately found standards for the 2011 national championships and 2012 trials.
The saddest thing is that this thread no doubt influenced USATF to get off their rear end and publish these standards.
How do you look after that?