Substituting easy runs with high-cadence biking sessions as part of a demanding running training program

yes

asdgafdcfas wrote:

yes

Thanks for your feedback. Positive, though very concise! Indeed, my post was quite long, I tried to provide all the relevant background information but possibly went too far. Would be grateful for any further opinions and advice.

Absolutely yes!

I am not an expert but just hobby jogger like you, with recent PRs around your times and about your age, so bear that in mind. No expert opinion here, just my own observations from somebody around your level.

I am reminded of two recent example. Meb said that he was biking instead of doing a second run some days. Also, one of the guys at Zap fitness was running some pretty good mid-distance times off fairly low mileage (mid 30s?-40s maybe) using a lot of biking as supplement.

Absolutely the greatest return for the buck is going to be in running more but if you need to bike to stay healthy than it is a good alternative. I personally believe that you are going to see good results in mile-10k with quite a few hard sessions like you have planned with supplemental biking. I am not sure it would be as good if your focus is 1/2 marathon or marathon. In that case I would suggest backing off on some of the intensity and doing a longer base building season before adding in more intensity. Meb was doing over 100mpw when he was doing supplemental biking.

Hope you have a happy, healthy New Year filled with PRs.

Redd,

thanks for your feedback and support.

Mr. Obvious,

thank you for your extensive comments. The experiences of Meb and of the guy at Zap Fitness are consistent with other accounts by reasonably good runners (I remember a 3:42 1500m athlete) and coaches that I found on the web.

My focus is on the mile, so a week consisting of 6-7 hours of running with all the elements covered (long run, LT work, VO2max work, 400-1500 speed, and power) and 2-3 hours of high-cadence cycling may be adequate for improving, at least for someone who is not yet ready to sustain 70-80 mile weeks. Possibly within a year or two I may be able to do all the sessions on my feet!

I wish you, too, a wonderful New Year full of PRs and of good things for you and your family.

As a triathlete I would make a suggestion to you. If you adopt a time trial position you can get the firing pattern for cycling very close to what it is for running. You have to sit very far forward and move your seat far forward. Many triathletes do this to make the bike to run transition easier. The benefit is that for me my cycling and running go more hand in hand (in terms of the movements). If you cycle in the standard road position you are using widely different muscles and firing patterns thus making cycling very different from running in terms of movement and therefore less effective as a cross training modality.

Additionally I run as fast as I could on like 85 miles per week on like the 30 I do these days because of the cycling and swimming cross training, so I highly recommend it, keeps me much more fresh both mentally and physically in terms of my running muscles.

I ran pretty well when I was cycling and swimming on top of running, but I think that I'm in the minority. I don't think there's any question that aerobic development is going to help you, even as a miler, but is the cycling the best use of your time? I don't know.

Would you be better off spending that time in the weightroom developing strength and power using a periodized strength training program geared toward the mile? (After all, the stronger you are, the more power you are able to generate, and, potentially, the faster you may run that mile.)

I admit that this is a question I'm in the middle of muddling through as a coach, and I'm not yet convinced of the answers. I'm close, though, to being persuaded that even for a relative novice like yourself, strength is the way to go for a race like the mile.

Cold today wrote:

If you adopt a time trial position you can get the firing pattern for cycling very close to what it is for running.

Many thanks for sharing this very interesting advice. Often it's the little things like this that make the difference. I will definitely give it a try.

May you have a blessed 2011!

Cold today wrote:

Additionally I run as fast as I could on like 85 miles per week on like the 30 I do these days because of the cycling and swimming cross training, so I highly recommend it, keeps me much more fresh both mentally and physically in terms of my running muscles.

I don't mean to sound stupid but, I do not understand what you meant.

I think that he's saying that he currently can race as fast as he ever could. But instead of running 85 miles per week as he used to, he's only doing 30 miles of running per week now, supplemented by cycling and swimming workouts.

Johnny Rotten wrote:

I don't think there's any question that aerobic development is going to help you, even as a miler, but is the cycling the best use of your time? I don't know.

Would you be better off spending that time in the weightroom developing strength and power using a periodized strength training program geared toward the mile?

Thanks, these are the very kind of answers I was looking for. Open and thought-provoking.

My line of reasoning was that strength and power would be provided by the short hill sprints at max effort, while the the high-cadence cycling should provide the much needed (for me) aerobic endurance (I still have to develop it a lot).

I think that your suggestion would be spot on for a 800m runner, while as an aspiring miler I would be a bit wary of sacrificing aerobic support.

Best wishes for a wonderful 2011!

You may well be right--it's a very interesting question, and my thinking has evolved over the past twenty years on the topic. At one time I would have agreed with you unequivocally. Now, I'm quite a lot more undecided.

Remember the rule of training specificity, too. There are many wonderful supplements to running that may help us run faster, but in order to progress as a runner, you have to...run.

My own personal experience (nothing scientific about it) is that I've run faster times with biking and swimming days than with just running. I was always injury prone. Then, about 1.5 years ago, I was going to be laid up from running for 3 months, so I bought a road bike, relearned how to swim, and signed up for a triathlon, just to give myself a purpose to all the cross training.

Long story short, I had some success at the triathlon and have stuck with it partially because of that, and partially because I've found the training more conducive to my running than just running ever was. I typically run 2-3x/week (almost always a long run and a workout day; possibly a race), bike 2-3x/week, and swim 2x/week. The beauty of the biking and swimming days is that I can pound myself aerobically; but at the same time be able to be relatively fresh for hard running efforts. Over the past year, I've run pr's in the mile (with literally ZERO training under 5k pace), 6k, 10k road, and half marathon, and one of my fastest 5k times. Part of it has just been being able to consistently get in some running without long injury breaks for the first time in years (finally was able to actually train for and run a marathon, too), but I also think that the aerobic base I've been able to develop on the bike has been huge for me.

So, this is getting long-winded, but basically I've found that for me personally, biking has been more beneficial for me than "easy" runs in terms of staying healthy and running well.

Johnny Rotten wrote:

Remember the rule of training specificity, too. There are many wonderful supplements to running that may help us run faster, but in order to progress as a runner, you have to...run.

You are completely right. Indeed, this is what I tried in the last months, increasing training load substantially. However, it seems that my body is still not ready for this. I could probably run 7 days per week with some doubles, but I would need to cut the intensity a lot.

The idea of substituting the second session on double days and all the easy run days with high-cadence cycling was to retain high intensity in the program (as all the runs would be quality runs) while at the same time building aerobic endurance.

Possibly your advice of adding a strength component might be followed by having some body weight exercises for the legs following the bike sessions (I am thinking of demanding exercises such as single-leg squats). This would not be as effective as a gym program, but might be useful.

Running specificity may be fully adhered within one year or two as the body stregnthens and adapts to the increased training load.

Thanks for you thoughtful contributions. Have a nice day

proponent wrote:

The beauty of the biking and swimming days is that I can pound myself aerobically; but at the same time be able to be relatively fresh for hard running efforts. Over the past year, I've run pr's in the mile (with literally ZERO training under 5k pace), 6k, 10k road, and half marathon, and one of my fastest 5k times.

Basically I've found that for me personally, biking has been more beneficial for me than "easy" runs in terms of staying healthy and running well.

Your experience is quite encouraging. Thanks for sharing!