High School Kids Running on Their Own?

I'm not a coach, but I heard kids on my old high school team talk about hard they were gonna work. And they NEVER did. it always went to, "Oh, I'll work hard next season.."

We had decent teams, 16:50-17:20 was our #5. We always got spanked by the good teams at big meets and states.

I truly believe that if a high school kid ACTUALLY wants to be good, he or she WILL be good. And you're exactly right, you have to run constantly. I had a shitty coach and I didn't have a clue what I was doing but I ran a bunch, mainly easy aerobic runs, and went low 16's, 9:30's, and 4:20's in 10th grade just because I WANTED to be fast. My friend who was really close to me freshman year got owned so he worked extremely hard to try to beat me. Long story short, we read massive amounts of coaching philosophy and taught ourselves to be the best we could. Kids always asked us what to do and when I gave them training plans, THEY ALWAYS GAVE UP. I did this for about ten or twleve people my junior and senior year and they always pussed out so I guess that's why I'm so cyncal.

99% of high school kids, if they even start to run consistently, will give up within a few weeks at best. About 1% will actually work hard and consistently.

The problem is the location of the school. There is not much of a running atmosphere. It is much cooler for kids to go and play football or basketball even if they are terrible.

The Central Valley does not have the depth of talent. Just keep up the great work. For being such a small program, Hughson has done some roughing up in the past and I see more coming. The girls race was pretty fast but, Becky hung tough.

Hughson Rules wrote:

The problem is the location of the school. There is not much of a running atmosphere. It is much cooler for kids to go and play football or basketball even if they are terrible.

Oh please. The 'coolness' of the sport has no influence on how dedicated the athletes are.

The key to getting the kids to work during the summer is to create an atmosphere that supports hard work: find strong leaders (they'll help keep things going when you aren't there and keep the team focused), foster team unity (kids are more likely to work together towards a common goal if they are closer to each other), etc.

Nail on the head.

I think you are on the right track. The t-shirt club incentives, the glint of desire in the eyes of younger competitors, these are things that help grow a team. Do you have any grads who are in college now who can come back and run with the groups during winter or summer breaks? This is a key that you can also foster in the responsible ones. All you need is one kid to buy into it, and others will feel the pull. But if the leaders are slackers, or even just normal high schoo runners, then you are in for a long haul. Maybe find the one kid who gets it, and no matter what year he is, revamp the program and make him the captain.

Not a coach, but my team is like that. 20/22 at districts 3 years ago, 10/22 2 years ago, 16/22 with #2,3,5 guys out, 4/22 this past year. The reason we got better was because I decided that I want to become an amazing runner. not just good, amazing. I got 2 other guys to run with me all the time, they faithfully run with me and listen to me every day. One went from 20:3x to 17:02 in a year. because those 2 got better, 2 other guys decided they needed to keep up with every one else. The last year we had a male qualify for xc states was in 1999. All you have to do is place i nthe top 13ish. This year we got 2nd and 5th and sent 2, and missed sending the team by one kid who got 70ish when he was in 20th shape.

The main thing is that you have to convince the kids to have faith in your program. Make an example out of the 8th place girl. Let the team realize pretty much any one of them coudl be there if they tried. Give them motivational speeches, show them an epic video. Get 1 guy to lead the team. Try to get the top runners to be funny and show everyone that workign out is fun/ at leats worth it.

Don't know what I'm getting at, but I'll give it a go.

My hs rival team had one good runner. Some would call him great. One day after xc was over a guy on his team decided he wanted to be great. He went and ran with the good runner everyday, never missing a day. Track season came around and this guy PR'd like a motherf*cker. Went from 4:56 in the 1600 to 4:29 that year. The good runner managed 4:18 that season.

Another guy on the team thought "Hey, I used to be as good as that dude." And he started running with the 4:29 guy.(The 4:18 guy graduated). Well cross country season came around and these 2 relatively unknown runners took the state by surprise and got 4th and 8th at the State XC championship. Now these 2 guys have been putting in the mileage like none other I've seen. Track season is coming up and I'm going to have a front row seat for the show.

Hughson Rules wrote:

The problem is the location of the school. There is not much of a running atmosphere. It is much cooler for kids to go and play football or basketball even if they are terrible.

The Central Valley does not have the depth of talent. Just keep up the great work. For being such a small program, Hughson has done some roughing up in the past and I see more coming. The girls race was pretty fast but, Becky hung tough.

I thank you for the compliment and you are fairly well on the mark regarding the marquee sports. Every football player, despite the fact that they were 1-9 still got a giftbasket from a pretty girl on game days (no lie nor hyperbole). Basketball is currently 0-10. But they still get more love than our kids.

The fact that we have such a good individual girl is a double edged sword. She is so much better than all the girls that they think that she is some sort of genetic anomoly (much as we look at the africans). Even the boys around school just dismiss her as being "crazy fast"....not, wow she gets up at 4:30 every morning and does her chores on the farm and still manages to bang out 30-50 mpw during the summer.

I think I may have taken the wrong tact last summer by splitting up my most fired up kids. I tried to put them in charge of each of my summer mileage groups. I think their fires will burn brighter if they can feed of the heat generated by one another, and since I am waxing poetic right now that hopefully the heat and light of their future combined confligration will light the way out of Hughson's athletic morass.

Yes, don't split up the big dogs, they need to feed off each other. That is not a viable option, although it is attempted based on theory.

Roadraces!!

If a kid is going to run, a little reward for all that work can really be motivating. Three or four races over the summer can be that motivator. Our local coach takes the team to an out of state roadrace about the middle of the summer. They spend 3 or 4 days and some parents chaperone. They do a couple fundraisers to help pay for it. That makes them train some so they can run the race and by the time they get back, they only have about a month left before the season starts so they are more apt to keep training.

When I was in 8th grade, I knew I was going to run xc so I entered a 10k race. I trained by doing a little over 4 mile loop for about 3 weeks. I couldn't believe when the top kid in my age group was 5 minutes faster than me. I found a race to enter about every 3 weeks and by the end of the summer, I had knocked off those 5 minutes. The first xc race I had ever been at, I was 2nd runner on the team.

If you are at a small school, getting out and seeing what other kids are doing may be a big motivator instead of just being good enough for your little area. In a roadrace, it doesn't matter how big or what division the other runners compete in. You are all competing against each other that day.

when 10k used to be the norm wrote:

Roadraces!!

If you are at a small school, getting out and seeing what other kids are doing may be a big motivator instead of just being good enough for your little area. In a roadrace, it doesn't matter how big or what division the other runners compete in. You are all competing against each other that day.

This is very true. We did a 5 mile RR on july 4th last summer as a motivator for kids to run independantly during the early off season, prior to starting organized team meetings. Top guy was like 33 something. Very few (one or two) took motivation from that experience. The two that did were the two slowest that day, but ended up having great seasons.

I dunno what you guys are going on about, when I was in HS I raced all year and won quite a few road races like 5ks, 10ks, 10 miles, all that stuff. And alot of people on my team were road racers too. Maybe you just got an unlucky system or something.

I have no problems. We have a tradition of having good boys and girls teams and some girls have gotten scholarships.

Kids who want to be good run. Those who don't care dont run.

We have a sign up meeting in June and I tell them that if they want to win they will run if not, then hey, my season will end 1 week earlier and I'll have a free weekend when everyone else goes to states.

I live in an area that has competitive teams and individuals in NY, by the time the season starts the kids who didn't run are the brunt of jokes and get made fun of.

I give them training advice in June- they choose to follow it or not.

We have a HUGE level of parentental involvement- booster club, we get more spectators at dual meets than at football games (300-500).

Parents encourage their kids to run on their own.

A new teacher commented how she can't believe the distance runners are running, outside when it's way below freezing and we have treadmills and elipticals in the weight room.

It's a tradition that has developed. GOod luck.

I thank you for the compliment and you are fairly well on the mark regarding the marquee sports. Every football player, despite the fact that they were 1-9 still got a giftbasket from a pretty girl on game days (no lie nor hyperbole). Basketball is currently 0-10. But they still get more love than our kids.

This is a problem in a a lot of schools- especailly the "backwards" ones. Luckily, in my school most of the kids, and their parents, see most of the football players as what they truly are- overweight and unathletic.

They treat other sports with respect. Our baseball team has been multiple state champs, still, there are more spectators at track meets than any of their games.

The staff has no respect for them because they are arrogant, so most of the staff and students cheer against them.

Basketball is mediocre at best and, again, their arrogance hurts them.

In the meantime, I get complimented all the time on my team and how we've helped raise the self esteem of slower kids.

Make them ALL part of the team. When we win our Section and go to states it's NOT just the 7 top runners, it's EVERY member ofd the team who pushed someone else to run faster.

XC is a TEAM sport at my school. Sheesh- teachers buy our team t-shirt with the slogan on it.

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I am convinced that the 'solution' is not necessarily the effort a coach puts out, or the external motivation is provided - that develops a work ethic for distance guys. The real (IMHO) element to success is to get 'a' group or a number of groups (based on proximity) to start, then maintain, a workout habit. There is hardly anything greater than peer influence which can lead to some loyalty even pressure, to keep up the trend of training. If you have someone(s) that will call or contact another team member when a workout is missed - that means and has an impact far more than a coach - especially summer - when rules inhibit contact anyway (I think). This has been mentioned here in a few of the above posts. This is not a xc thing or a distance thing - it is a people thing.

Example - one season the girls HS xc team was 4/7 in a mediocre region, with about 10 girls participating. Recruiting at the HS and @ jr hi resulted in growth to about 85 runners. Summer running was emphasized per peer networking - next year 2nd in State - ONE YEAR. The following year = 8th ranking in US. Not rocket science - largely a numbers game AND the PEERS, and as mentioned a tradition of quality and pride ensued. But, alas after a few years the 'head' coach forgot what the simple formula was - and fell back to become a good team - not a great one. Of course one of the crucial things is the commitment of 'a few good men,' who will step up and make some contact with other team people.

OK thats enough

Oh, and that happened very successfully at every level I ran - with all levels of performance and potential, in spades

I have to agree with the "People Thing" theory. You need to get that core of kids to work into their own culture. Let the fast ones feed off of each other, and then build a culture of encouragement, where new up and comers are welcomed and challenged to work their way up to the big dogs. It's not about getting 38 kids running more miles now, it's getting 5 then 10 then 15 over time, and creating an environment when the younger kids want to emulate the work ethic of the older ones.

As coaches we always try to get the most out of every kid and sometimes we spend so much mental energy about our kids who don't commit. In order to build up a culture of work, you need to begin by finding the few kids who want to work. Take the number 4-8 and 10 runners who are friends and are willing to work hard and build the program around them. I've been at a school for 9 years and when I first arrived only one kid was willing to run over 30 miles a week. I worked with him and gradually others started joining our training group. By the end of the year about 5 or 6 kids were willing to work more consistently. Now 9 years later, we have easily over 20 kids of various abilities who work hard year round. The most important thing is to find a couple of kids who work hard and others are willing to follow. Coaches can plan the training, but the kids are the ones who actually have to follow it. If you don't have good leaders, you don't have a good team.

To those of you who have been saying to try to develop a core group/nucleus first, you are exactly right. I don't know why I have been fighting the idea for years. I've been trying to work from far to egalitarian of a model. That model has not been entirely devoid of success (I had a boy go from an 18 min 2 miler at the end of last year to a 12:30 guy this year), but I've always been left banging my head because so many of my kids who have ability, and say they want to achieve, don't do the thing that is most crucial to achievement; run on a consistant basis.

Thanks for all of your responses.