Seattle, Philadelphia, or New Haven

Brother-in-law is a Penn Med grad. Cost of living in Philly is not bad compared to DC/NY/Boston, schools are good, safety is an issue around the Penn campus. Running scene in Philly is good. There are good trails on the Schukyll and Fairmont Park/forbidden road. Philly half is an excellent race. Full marathon has had problems. Otherwise, racing scene is ok. Culture/Arts/Dining/Museums are all very good. Big downsides are a very bad ghetto north of downtown that you should not enter without national guard troops and an old city with skinny roads that are always full.

Don't know much about New Haven. Small town with not much going on except for the university. New Haven has a pretty nasty ghetto that is close to the University.

Seattle is great if you like clouds, light rain and 50 degree temps. If you can put up with that, Seattle is pretty amazing. Tons of trails for running, including a 26 mile trail that circles the city. Not the best place to race because of all the hills. Cost of living may be higher than Philly due to the desirability of many areas, although taxes are lower. Pretty safe and a good place to raise kids. Pac NW is incredibly beautiful on the handful of days each year when it isn't cloudy, 50 deg with light rain.

If you like big cities, New Haven will probably not be enough for you. If you like small cities, I think New Haven is a pretty good place to live and run. We are a 2 hr drive from Boston and 1 hr 45 min train ride to New York, so if you're looking for quality road or track races, you can choose from either of those. Believe me, there are enough open track meets that you could race on the track 40 out of 52 weeks of of the year if you wanted (just a guess). The running around New Haven is pretty good too, we have a good series of trails within a 15 minute driving radius. The Regional Water Authority maintains them nicely.

Vibrant restaurant scene. The bar scene exists, but I've kind of gotten over it, there are maybe 10-20 bars?

You hear about the crime and it's much ado about nothing in my opinion. It's a city, yes there is crime. However I do not feel unsafe, and I run by myself at night all the time. OK, I probably wouldn't want my wife to run alone at night, but that's true of any city.

There are grad students and young professionals, definitely. However, it's not as extensive a scene as you're likely to find in a bigger city.

If you're willing to drive a little, the New Haven suburbs can be very nice. Branford, Guilford, Madison, Milford, Woodbridge, Orange. Those are all shoreline towns, so there is a little bit of wealth, so the public schools are in good shape. Lots of AP classes, extracurriculars, the expectation is that most of the graduating class will go to college, that sort of thing. The one downside is that the suburbs are kind of homogenous, as suburbs tend to be. White middle class boringness. Less so in East Haven, West Haven, New Haven, but definitely going further up and down the shoreline, or even into the valley.

I do like New Haven. Sometimes I get bored of it, but other times I really like it. If I were to raise a family I would probably do it just outside the city so I could have a yard and the schools are a little better.

Was this the gloomiest weekend in Seattle history?

I grew up in Seattle, went to school in NH, and now live in Seattle. Either one's great. Either place, safety depends on your neighborhood. I actually liked the running options from the Yale campus better than the running options in Seattle itself. Just outside of Seattle there are some pretty cool places to run though.

People I know who went to school at Penn were not too excited about the running options or the safety.

Thanks for the serious, thoughtful, and specific responses. We live in Seattle right now, and are considering staying for another 4 years at least. All that's been said about the weather, the beauty, and the running in Seattle rings true to me. Seattle is a great city on paper, especially as far as medical education/training opportunities. But man after this past weekend its hard to imagine at least 4 more winters here. I know winter in New England has its own charming elements, so to speak, but I lived in CT near New Haven through high school, so there's a bit of a nostalgic component. A big part of me would like to get back to that part of the country for a few years. Having said that, it's hard to imagine life there as a grown-up raising kids, so I was anxious to hear others' takes on aspects of grown-up/grad student life.

I've lived in both Philadelphia and Seattle, but not New Haven.

Both are definitely great cities in their own way. Philadelphia I'd say is a little more rough around the edges, but still has some great, safe neighborhoods and there are tons of museums and things to do. You'd probably do a lot of running in fairmount park, which is a great place for hiking, biking, and all kinds of outdoor activities- I believe it is the biggest city park in the country.

Seattle is a much newer city, and perhaps it was just me, but I did feel as though the pace of living was slower there- there was definitely a west-coast type of feel. You are never far away from the mountains- on a clear day from my apartment, I could see both the olympics to the west and the cascades to the east. Tons of great camping there if you are into that. The city also has a number of great parks too- discovery park, seward park, green lake, etc. UW is a great school but I have heard it is greatly beneficial to have washington state residency before you apply. Also, make sure you like cloudy weather.

I can't speak specifically to as how much it would cost to live in each city, but as an earlier poster said, it's probably less than new york city or washington DC.

Hope this helps!

I don't know if you have a child yet or how old he or she is, but I can speak a little about schools for kids. A number of my friends and relatives lived within Philly proper. Almost none of them went to Public school. Usually instead went to Catholic school either inside or on the fringe of the city. Not exactly cheap.

I will also suggest looking at places to live across the Delaware in NJ(Gloucester/Camden/Burlington Counties). Takes 5-10 minutes to get to the city if you live near one of the bridges.

Also keep in mind, Fairmount Park is in Northwest Philly, which kind of limits you to certain neighborhoods in city limits if you don't feel like getting across the city to run. Scratch the majority of North Philly, and West Philly which is horrid. Slightly south of the Art Museum area can be expensive(Rittenhouse Square). Manayunk(good amount of college kids and bar scene) and Roxborough aren't too bad and right around Belmont Plateau and Fairmount Park.

I know there are some Philly posters on here and can speak of the city a lot better than I could.

New Haven has a lot to offer, there are a few iffy neighborhoods but they are nothing to worry about if you aren't living in the middle of one. The running around New Haven is extremely underrated in my opinion. There are miles of trails near the Yale sports fields around the Maltby Lakes, and running around both East Rock and West Rock are challenging and satisfying. If you want a change of pace, there are great trails in the surrounding towns such as the bike path in Hamden and the bridal trails in Naugatuck.

The cost of living is low downtown I'd imagine compared to the other two more "major" cities on the outskirts of the Yale Campus, and downtown is a really unique experience. Great pizza too.

Chase Utley wrote:

I don't know if you have a child yet or how old he or she is, but I can speak a little about schools for kids. A number of my friends and relatives lived within Philly proper. Almost none of them went to Public school. Usually instead went to Catholic school either inside or on the fringe of the city. Not exactly cheap.

I will also suggest looking at places to live across the Delaware in NJ(Gloucester/Camden/Burlington Counties). Takes 5-10 minutes to get to the city if you live near one of the bridges.

Great username. Don't forget the western burbs. I'd prefer that to NJ for a variety of reasons. I live just outside Philadelphia and absolutely love it, aside from the weather (I'm about done with winter).

New Haven has Caseus, so it's a win.

Living in a desirable place in Seattle with good running options is cheaper than Philly Metro, more so when you figure in running trails. My 2 cents. Philly is definitly a great city, so if you find you are getting bored (as we did) in Seattle, Philly may be the way to go.

People talk a lot about east coast weather, but as a seattle transplant, I see way more sun out here than in the northwest. Remember that things flip and running in summer sucks.

If I was putting in solid miles and in med school, I would live in the SEA U district in a heartbeat.

I've lived in Philly 5 years now and let me tell you, it grows on you! Kelly Drive (8 mile loop), Wissahickon Trail (5.5 miles long), Belmont Plateau (side trails), the list goes on.. the running in this city is great!

The city itself has a ton to offer in terms of food, entertainment, musueums, and other attractions.

This coming from a New York guy who was completely opposed to living here...

Thanks everyone. Your helpful responses provided some great insight, and will help us decide how to rank residency programs. Our fate is ultimately up to the match!

The nice thing about Philly is that if you hop on the train you can be in the city in ten minutes and live in a nice suburb. Try Havertown, and you can train with Haveford and Villanova on safe streets and trails and still be 10-20 minutes from Valley Green and 20-25 minutes from Valley Forge. You have the best Med schools in your group in Philadelphia and the best suburban public schools within a very short and safe train ride into town. Plus if you live in Pa, then you don't have to live in Connecticut!

new havener wrote:

If you're willing to drive a little, the New Haven suburbs can be very nice. Branford, Guilford, Madison, Milford, Woodbridge, Orange. Those are all shoreline towns, so there is a little bit of wealth, so the public schools are in good shape.

If I could live in this area, Madison in particular, I would. Not exactly cheap unless compared to NYC and Fairfield County, but one of the best values in the country: beautiful, beach, low crime, great schools, and way more laid back than NYC suburbs.

I'd agree with what the poster above says. You also might just want to consider that if you've been in Seattle for several years and you think you might end up there later, maybe it would just be great to East to an excellent med school for a few years.

Yanqui wrote:

I'd agree with what the poster above says. You also might just want to consider that if you've been in Seattle for several years and you think you might end up there later, maybe it would just be great to East to an excellent med school for a few years.

That's precisely what I've been considering lately. I haven't lived on the east coast since high school. It's where my parents/grandparents/aunts/uncles live, and I just miss the east coast feel (it's hard to pinpoint exactly what, because the west coast has been great to me). The complimentary replies about New Haven have been reaffirming and encouraging, especially regarding running locations and the smaller city feel (we are over the bar/club scene, and NYC is close enough). I have a trip there planned in January to speak with some of the powers that be in the med school admissions dept at Yale. The one huge drawback is that if we list Yale first, my husband matches there, and we move to CT, I have a one shot deal at medical school with Yale (otherwise I'm going to UConn or have to try to do some ridiculous commute to NYC). Which will be bad enough added to the knowledge I would have had little trouble getting into UW as an in-state applicant.