Why so much hate for uncompetitive runners?

Perhaps because they tend to be successful, well rounded, popular, well adjusted individuals?

This is a reflection of the insecurity a lot of runners who would be classified as "competitive" feel.

if you are competitive but not elite, that sort of implies failure. Although most people won't look at you that way, being a 15 flat guy says two things about you, you are clearly putting in some effort, and you aren't getting to the top. That can really put someone on the defensive.

With running especially everything is so black and white, you can measure exactly how far you are from being the best. Winning a local 5k in 15 minutes where the second place person couldn't even hang with you for a mile makes you look pretty good, but YOU know, because YOU are competitive and therefore care, that 15 flat doesn't get you shit.

Seeing people who don't try, just do it for fun experience the same success as you (coming in 1st in a 300 person road race isn't really all the different from coming in 200th, a lot of races you don't even get ANYTHING extra, a medal or certificate...) can make you very bitter.

In addition to this, some people are probably put off by that Penguin jerk and people that say things like he does. They may assume that all hobby-joggers or whatever you call them are like that.

I tend to agree with you. Competitive runners tend to be arrogant and self-centered...too individualistic and independent. They are often jealous of "normal" runners who have balance in their lives, have loving friends and families, and who know how to really enjoy their day-to-day lives.

Personally I don't have anything against people who run slow. I just don't get it when people enter a race, then treat it like the most uncompetitive event possible. Taking photos, eating a three course meal, etc. Want to go for a long run? Then go for a long run. Why spend all that money just to dick around at a marathon?

But even though it's a behavior I don't understand, I'm not going to put anyone down for doing what they do. If you want to spend $200 to jog/walk a marathon and waddle across the line in six hours, more power to you. That's just no me, though. I've always believed a race is where you give 100% effort to run as fast and place as high as you can. If your best, even after appropriate training and effort during the race, is a 4:30, that's fine.

As a former uncompetitive runner myself, I think part of the "hate" comes from the inversely proportional amount of time/pain it takes to improve beyond a certain point of fitness.

It's easy to get bitter when you've hit a plateau and have to sweat blood to drop seconds and some "hobby jogger" is getting a 13.1 tattoo.

"That's just no me, though."

Lolololololololol!!

because, even as a "hobbyjogger" with a HS/NCAA team background, you might now be doing 50-100+mpw and running relatively well in local road races, while the majority of finishers at these local road races are doing ~20mpw.

nothing wrong with that but you spend a lot more time than they do, than the weekend warriors do, and if people dont respect that you take it seriously, you may get bitter

well said. i think there is a lot of insecurity among the "competitive enough to win local races but nowhere near elite" crowd. (i am part of this crowd.)

I have never been rude or condescending toward hobby joggers, nor do I have anything less than appreciation for people who run/walk just for the hell of it or to benefit a cause.

I am way more put off by so-called "serious" runners who bitch and moan about people coming to races for "fun" or "charity." These same people will go psycho over someone jogging in lane one of the track when it is much easier to be mildy annoyed, just move around, and forget about it. These same runners will throw hissy fits, blog, bitch out the race director, and vent for days when the "race for cancer" or "the race for homeless kids" course was mis-measured, had no mile splits, or any sort of mishap that keeps them from a legitimate shot at their PR.

Yeah, I'm jealous of non-competitive runners. When I'm at races I tend to talk more to the fun-runners than my legitimate competitors simply because they have personalities and are actually interesting to talk to. I envy the balance they have.

I miss the days where improvement came quickly, and I didn't have to run myself into the ground just to try to shave a few seconds off my 5k time. I hate that I can win races and still be like, "Damn my time sucked!" and have race directors tell me I get "slower every year." (Still, when I have a bad race, I have enough sense to be graceful, not sulk about my time until I get home, and not make excuses for my dissapointing performance.)

Those of us who are competitive set high expectations for ourselves. Even if we know we will never be elite there is still a part of us that uses elite runners as a frame of reference for what's possible. Whenever we compare our times to the elites we look at ourselves as failures.

Sometimes our own expectations are so hard to meet that they fall in the way of our enjoyment of the process. The fun-runners don't have all of these ridiculous expectations, so they tend to be happier and more able to enjoy the process.

I am not fast at all, don't expect to be at the top of the standings, and just aim for success by my own definition (i.e. improved times, consistent pace, etc.). But I belong to a couple of clubs that have some very fast runners.

None of them treat me with disdain. They are encouraging, supportive, offer helpful tips, and are a overall quite a friendly bunch. I know that sometimes they'll refer to the Penguin mindset with some disdain and will wonder why people would want to run marathons over four hours. But I don't take these things personally. I know to some extent where they're coming from. I also know that everyone present has abilities that others don't have whether running or in some other field.

And I feel that the runners in my club respect that I'm making an effort, even if my speed doesn't match theirs.

Interestingly, in one race, a 5k, in which I won a first woman over 50 award, the people cheering the most enthusiastically were some nearby Kenyan runners who finished in the top five. They actually had received their awards, so didn't even need to wait for the older age groups. Yet they stayed and cheered for the rest of us.

All depends--and I think those most secure about their running are less likely to look down on others.

But I also don't like the reverse snobbery that assumes that fast runners are elitist who do everything naturally and effortlessly while slower runners work harder to finish a race. It doesn't square with what I see at the interval workouts with my club. I know that the faster runners are pushing to the max and doing often twice the number of repeats that I am--and know that they earn their fast times.

But I also don't like the reverse snobbery that assumes that fast runners are elitist who do everything naturally and effortlessly while slower runners work harder to finish a race. It doesn't square with what I see at the interval workouts with my club. I know that the faster runners are pushing to the max and doing often twice the number of repeats that I am--and know that they earn their fast times.[/quote]

I agree; I just haven't met many of those snobby 15-flat guys (or 17 flat-girls).

good question!!!!!!!

Rephrase your question:

There's no hate for uncompetitive runners, there's hate for uncompetitive runners who sign up for competitive races

Well said, I'm just sayin'!

Its not that the 15 flats are "snobby", just that the rank and file is threatened by them.

Also noone talks about the insecurity ofthe hobby jogger to elites which is much more prevalent. No child dreams of being slow.

i support anybody running. i have pretty much no problem with hobby joggers. i only care if people who care less and are slower than me are getting in my way literally and figuratively. i work extremely hard and want to be respected for the time and effort i put in. i dont ask to be treated like a king

Chairman Wow wrote:

But I also don't like the reverse snobbery that assumes that fast runners are elitist who do everything naturally and effortlessly while slower runners work harder to finish a race. It doesn't square with what I see at the interval workouts with my club. I know that the faster runners are pushing to the max and doing often twice the number of repeats that I am--and know that they earn their fast times.

I agree; I just haven't met many of those snobby 15-flat guys (or 17 flat-girls).[/quote]

Just to clarify... the snobbery I referred to is that of some not-elite runners or sometimes too members of the media who glorify those who take longer to finish races as somehow more "heroic" than faster runners who, they seem to believe, must just have it naturally.

But to me, training for and running a 2-something marathon is plenty heroic. I think that when more stories feature such runners, others will perhaps be inspired to aim higher.

Unfortunately, I think many are threatened by the idea of aiming higher. Sad to say, for this reason, there's some dissing of faster runners, on the side of slower runners.

Personally I wouldn't dis either faster or slower runners than myself--I will get older and at 90, I could be the one coming in at the end of the pack regardless of effort level. So it's not for me to criticize someone who takes 40 or more minutes to complete a 5k. There are as many who could criticize my efforts, bless their hearts! Also I'd feel it rude to disrespect those who run faster. I'd rather learn from them.

I have sometimes entered races (not marathons, though) and run them at training pace to support certain events (for example events put on by my running clubs or in other ways deserving of support) when I'm not ready to race them. But even so, no stops for pizza or Starbuck's thank you. It's still a run, not a shopping mall trip.

The Waterboy wrote:

Rephrase your question:

There's no hate for uncompetitive runners, there's hate for uncompetitive runners who sign up for competitive races

End of story right here.

Footnote. Babe, if you aren't running 13+ or 28+ it isn't competitive. You are a hobby jogger.

One of the problems as someone mentioned earlier, is the insecurity of runners. I had one semi-elite runner tell me he had never watched a football game. It was easy to believe that his wife had him neutered. LIfe is varied, enjoy all of it.