Gun Slingers: Dave Smith vs Martin Smith

New Start Thread

Space Cowboy

9 years ago 12/11/2010 4:50pm CST

Back To IndexForum Index

I am naive enough to believe that this could be a positive thread to display the skill of both of these coaches as they are currently at the top of their game;(currently ruling the midwest collegiate xc scene). *So don't eat each other on this one.. lol I'll be impressed if anyone writes anything at all...

Let's start out with a complementary fact... D.Smith has far less than half of the experience of M.Smith, but seems to be prospering no matter how you roll the dice getting the top spot at nationals twice, and also dominating the Big 12.

history? contributers? coaching styles? constructive criticisms?
strapiton

9 years ago 12/11/2010 5:44pm CST
re: Space Cowboy

Back To IndexForum Index

I know that D Smith is smart as F so that doesn't hurt at all.
A Real Team

9 years ago 12/11/2010 9:38pm CST
re: strapiton

Back To IndexForum Index

Univ of Oklahoma
NATIONAL
2010 XC - 5th
2010 Outdoor - 27th
2010 Indoor - 14th
Average = 15th

CONFERENCE
2010 XC - 3rd
2010 Outdoor - 2nd
2010 Indoor - 1st
Average = 2nd

Oklahoma St
NATIONAL
2010 XC - 1
2010 Outdoor - 33rd
2010 Indoor - 60th
Average = 31st

CONFERENCE
2010 XC - 1st
2010 Outdoor - 9th
2010 Indoor - 11th
Average = 7th

Advantage.... University of Oklahoma
Truthiness II

9 years ago 12/11/2010 9:46pm CST
re: A Real Team

Back To IndexForum Index

You are forgetting the Oklahoma State finished 17th on the womens side nationally this season while Oklahoma finished....well...they didnt actually finish!
strapiton

9 years ago 12/11/2010 10:10pm CST
re: A Real Team

Back To IndexForum Index

No way that Martin would trade 27th and 14th in track for 1st in XC. NO WAY
My take on it

9 years ago 12/12/2010 12:20am CST
re: A Real Team

Back To IndexForum Index

Does anyone actually care about indoor track?

in summary

9 years ago 12/12/2010 2:04pm CST
re: A Real Team

Back To IndexForum Index

in summary:
Oklahoma State
focuses on cross country: gets best result possible
doesn't focus on track: doesn't do well

Oklahoma:
focuses on cross country: does well
focuses on track: does mediocre

so, when it comes down to it, OSU does an amazing job on things they focus on. OU does a mediocre to good job on things they focus on.
FAT Nuts

9 years ago 12/12/2010 2:48pm CST
re: in summary

Back To IndexForum Index

OU probably spends 2-3 scholarships on distance runners
OSU spends all of theirs on distance runners.

How is taking 12.6 scholarships and beating people with less considered great??

The only reason OSU wins is they out spend everyone else.

IF the OU football team had 10 scholarships and OSU had 80 it would be ridiculous, and everyone would be talking about it. It is that way in XC. IF Martin put 12 scholarships in distance it would be a different result.
haha YOZA

9 years ago 12/12/2010 3:20pm CST
re: FAT Nuts

Back To IndexForum Index

FAT Nuts wrote:

OU probably spends 2-3 scholarships on distance runners
OSU spends all of theirs on distance runners.

How is taking 12.6 scholarships and beating people with less considered great??

The only reason OSU wins is they out spend everyone else.

IF the OU football team had 10 scholarships and OSU had 80 it would be ridiculous, and everyone would be talking about it. It is that way in XC. IF Martin put 12 scholarships in distance it would be a different result.

You are a f***ing retard.
Space Cowboy

9 years ago 12/12/2010 4:21pm CST
re: Truthiness II

Back To IndexForum Index

Truthiness II wrote:

You are forgetting the Oklahoma State finished 17th on the womens side nationally this season while Oklahoma finished....well...they didnt actually finish!

listen buddy; when we're talking about D. Smith and M. Smith, we're not talking about women's Cross Country. (not that they don't care)

and yes this was a thread for distance fan but I like the recognition of their track records literally.
info

9 years ago 12/12/2010 4:51pm CST
re: Space Cowboy

Back To IndexForum Index

Dave Smith recruits better and spends more money on distance guys and doesn't have to field a Track team, just a cross country team\distance team. If you flip flopped their positions, not that Martin would want that, the results would be the same. The fact they call OK State's team a track team is a joke, don't believe me take a look http://www.okstate.com/sports/m-track/mtt/okst-m-track-mtt.html

So Dave drops all his scholarships on distance guys and Martin has to field an entire Track team. You tell me who's a better coach?
My take on it

9 years ago 12/12/2010 5:06pm CST
re: info

Back To IndexForum Index

Dave Smith is the better coach.

Canadeh

9 years ago 12/12/2010 6:09pm CST
re: My take on it

Back To IndexForum Index

They're both good coaches - they just have different priorities. It is definitely tougher to "succeed" having a broad progam (M.Smith), than a limited one (D.Smith), given the limitation on men's scholarships, but this should not devalue the contributions and success of either program.
Jealous Missourian

9 years ago 12/13/2010 9:12am CST
re: Canadeh

Back To IndexForum Index

That either one of these schools is so good is pretty amazing. Oklahoma is not a great place to recruit to. Let's see, Boulder with the mountains or Stillwater with, what? a mulch cross country course that has barriers to jump? Oklahoma is just not a place to want to go. So to be able to recruit so well to either one is impressive and then to coach to such great success, I tip my hat to both of those coaches. Not to mention OU was one of the worst D1 distance schools in the country just a few years ago.
ludamudblooda

9 years ago 12/13/2010 9:38am CST
re: Space Cowboy

Back To IndexForum Index

Are you all out of your minds? Last time I checked if you want to talk about women's programs Martin has coached, I believe you need to bring up the fact that his Virginia women broke an NCAA record for the lowest score at nationals. It was some time ago, and Martin doesn't coach the women anymore. If he did, they would school OSU's european foreign legion on the women's side.
WHAT??

9 years ago 12/13/2010 12:04pm CST
re: FAT Nuts

Back To IndexForum Index

FAT Nuts wrote:

OU probably spends 2-3 scholarships on distance runners
OSU spends all of theirs on distance runners.

How is taking 12.6 scholarships and beating people with less considered great??

The only reason OSU wins is they out spend everyone else.

IF the OU football team had 10 scholarships and OSU had 80 it would be ridiculous, and everyone would be talking about it. It is that way in XC. IF Martin put 12 scholarships in distance it would be a different result.

Thats a terrible argument. Just plain stupid
drops of truth

9 years ago 12/13/2010 12:22pm CST
re: WHAT??

Back To IndexForum Index

Here is some constructive criticism:

Clay Mayes, stop posting threads like these on Letsrun.
Just another running guy

9 years ago 12/13/2010 12:52pm CST
re: Space Cowboy

Back To IndexForum Index

I don't care about the OU/OSU pissing match, but I think there is a real issue here.

Given the way XC and track overlap for middle and distance runners and the way scholarships are limited, it does mean that being good at XC might cut against being good at sprints and field events or vice versa.

I wonder if this is a good argument for counting scholarships separately for XC and track, so that schools should be allowed 3 or 4 scholarships for XC and 8-10 for track (which would probably go to sprints and field events). I suppose given the way everything besides football and basketball is getting cut, this wouldn't be popular with athletic departments because of the extra cost, but it would seem more fair.
Wisco Fan

registered

9 years ago 12/13/2010 2:16pm CST
re: Just another running guy

Back To IndexForum Index

By the way, Martin is not coacher the pole vaulters and shot putters. They hire other coaches for that. Give this a few years to play out. Martin has rebuilt OU in a relatively short period of time.
He Speaks the TRUTH

9 years ago 12/14/2010 1:16pm CST
re: FAT Nuts

Back To IndexForum Index

FAT Nuts wrote:

OU probably spends 2-3 scholarships on distance runners
OSU spends all of theirs on distance runners.

How is taking 12.6 scholarships and beating people with less considered great??

The only reason OSU wins is they out spend everyone else.

IF the OU football team had 10 scholarships and OSU had 80 it would be ridiculous, and everyone would be talking about it. It is that way in XC. IF Martin put 12 scholarships in distance it would be a different result.

The distribution of schollys is a very real and factual point in this discussion. So I would say both are great coaches, though Martin has definitely done more with less in the distance events/CC. Dave is probably more appealing to the majority hs recruits because of his age/personality -but if a kid was mentally tough enough to deal with Martin he will make you great.