14:36 5k now from doing normal days at 7-8 minute pace... used to be 15:49 and was doing 5:45-6:30 pace on those days.
14:36 5k now from doing normal days at 7-8 minute pace... used to be 15:49 and was doing 5:45-6:30 pace on those days.
"Of those of you who say around 7:00 minute pace or slower for most runs, how many of you ran D1 in college?
Nobody here cares about your opinion on this if you run slower than say 16:00 for 5k or anywhere near that because obviously something is not working for you."
I'm not saying "run 7 minute pace or slower," just run what is easy...and for a lot of people that ends up being slower than 7 minute pace regularly. And I run on a D1 team (not an elite team but a D1 team).
And I've run significantly faster than 16 minutes for a 5k, although I'm not really sure where that comes into the equation. You could have a guy who is not very talented who runs 16 minutes and that might be really good for him, a result of great training...depends on the person.
kartelite wrote:
socalcush wrote:short answer: no, it is not bad, nor unreasonable, for your coach to insist on this, if you're at a decent program, and you're roughly a 15:30 5k runner...
That's ridiculous. Not everyone can go that hard on their easy days. If I had to run my easy days faster than 7:00 pace I probably would have hated college running/quit.
question: how fast were you in college? if you were a 15:30 5k runner running easy days slower than 7:00 you probably should have quit...
in my defense:
1) i further qualified this statement in a later post. it DOES admittedly depend on how this fits into the whole training scheme (so i was INCORRECT in suggesting that there is "short answer"), and certainly begs the question of how long are these recovery runs? my recovery runs when i was in my best shape were RARELY more than 6 miles, and never more than 7.
2) the coach--whom i would say is PROBABLY being overly prescriptive, though who knows if/how he actually enforces this, or if it is just a suggestion (despite the word "insist" in the original post)--does at least give a range (6:10-6:25), one that i think is relatively broad enough to accomodate "feel."
3) also worth noting: jack daniels later editions slowed down easy runs. the coach may be using an earlier edition vdot chart (my 15:30 estimate was actually based on earlier edition--so should be corrected to closer to a 15 flat 5k runner).
4) all that said, i'm about to go on a recovery run of about 10 miles at about 6:10-6:25 pace (i'm currently in sub-15 5k shape), though if i don't feel good, i'll shorten it and/or slow down.
that's my story and i'm sticking to it...
cush
runhowufeel wrote:
14:36 5k now from doing normal days at 7-8 minute pace... used to be 15:49 and was doing 5:45-6:30 pace on those days.
...the correct answer
i am proud to present... wrote:
runhowufeel wrote:14:36 5k now from doing normal days at 7-8 minute pace... used to be 15:49 and was doing 5:45-6:30 pace on those days.
...the correct answer
The correct answer for HIM, an incorrect answer for many others. Why is it so hard for people to comprehend that there is no perfect way to train for everyone? Pace, mileage, quality, etc. are different for each person. If it were simple to figure out or there was only one answer, there would be a lot more top level runners.
i once knew a coach at a large division 1 university in the midwest who insisted his mens team do this (run about 6min pace on "easy" days).
the result:
year after year of being last (or next to) at conference, and not good enough to go to regionals.
granted some things work for specific people, it obviously didn't work for his ENTIRE team (who had zero sub 15 5kers)
personally, i do my recovery days whatever feels natural, which tends to start around 8min pace and go to 7, sometimes under if I'm feeling good. I save my hard efforts for the days that matter - workouts & races. the results: an OT qualifying time.
here's a good thing to find:
search for a PROFRESSIONAL runner, a low 13min 5Ker who trains easy days at 5:30 or faster.
once you do that, count how many of these types you can find.
THEN
search for PROFESSIONAL runners who train easy days OVER 6 min pace.
then count how many of these types you can find.
i haven't done this yet, but I can put big money you will find that a LARGE majority of 13min 5kers are doing recovery runs OVER 6 min pace.
(and common sense would say 'if a 13min 5ker is doing his recovery runs at/over 6min pace, i - being a 15+ 5ker - should be doing mine slower')
Well, the only 13 flat guy I can think of off my head is Solinsky. He runs 5:30 - 5:40 pace from interviews.
I think the problem isn't that people are running 6:10 on easy days, provided they feel up to it. The problem is the coach insisting that people run a particular pace. Some days you're just going to feel bad - maybe you didn't sleep enough after a workout, or the workout was too hard, or whatever, but there are just days where you feel like shit. If you force yourself to run hard on those days you WILL have problems.
Yes sir!
on the positive side, you are probably going to become a lot more comfortable at that pace (and consequently faster paces will not seem so extreme) and your form will be less likely to fall apart, plus you probably get more aerobic and neuromuscular benefit from that pace, but on the negative side you might tire yourself out enough to diminish the quality of your hard workouts. It depends on feel. Maybe the important thing is to remember that most runs should not be done at one pace, but to allow them to be progressions from a very slow first mile, if you need it, to a good clip by the end. So, if the average is low six, you might still run the first mile in 8.
15:01 pr. easy runs usually end up being 7:55-8:10 pace. 15 mile tempo runs usually about 5:45 pace.
110-120 miles a week.
I always go by feel, within reason. If i am feeling great and know I have a workout the next day then I wont begin hammering the run (<6:00 pace), but I will push it a little (<6:30). If I dont have a workout coming up then I feel free to approach the 6:00 mark, but only if I am feeling it. If I dont have my best stuff Ill keep it at 7:00 to 7:10, anything slower just feels uncomfortable.