O'Sullivan: pace "too slow"...

This NYC seemed to have a larger than usual crowd of debutants who didn't respect the distance (notably 2 from the potato patch). Even Milena who had a good race made one of THE classic NYCM errors. Who doesn't feel great coming down the steep grade off the 59th st bridge?

Paula in Chicago seems to gone to everyone else's head. They all think it's a math problem (10k+mpw-HM=exact finishing time). It's a marathon, you don't know what's going to happen.

Paula was racing against Men while those in NYC were racing against women. Competition makes one better; understanding the distance alone does little.Truth; reality; silver backed glass; no more needs to be said.

idiotdetector wrote:

This NYC seemed to have a larger than usual crowd of debutants who didn't respect the distance (notably 2 from the potato patch). Even Milena who had a good race made one of THE classic NYCM errors. Who doesn't feel great coming down the steep grade off the 59th st bridge?

Paula in Chicago seems to gone to everyone else's head. They all think it's a math problem (10k+mpw-HM=exact finishing time). It's a marathon, you don't know what's going to happen.

O'Sullivan ran 2:35 at Dublin last year, although she ran that on a whim. This was her 1st serious marathon. I don't know who else you're referring to from "the potato patch" as there were no other Irish women in the elite field. If you mean McCann, she is an Aussie and has run several marathons, including a win at this year's Commonwealth Games (beating several very good Kenyans) and a top-10 in Sydney. If you mean Mark Carroll, I think 2:10:54 is a very good debut.

Glusac's previous PR (from nycmarathon.org) was 2:34:46, but I don't know where she ran that. I also thought it was foolish of her to run off the 59th st. bridge so fast.

I thought she ran that PR at New York last year (2001)

I really don't get Sonia's comments; she said she never runs that slow in training which is why she tightened up....errr you never run slower than 5:50 pace????? I doubt that very much....she ran 2:36 in Dublin as a training run so she does run 5:50s in training.

She was doing all of the early work which was dumb. Its easy to blame the pace not so easy to admit you were dumb.

Carroll had a good race, on a faster course on the same day he possibly could have gone sub 2:10...not bad for a debut. I don't think he'll run any more marathons though.

Sonia was lifting her knees up high from the start.

You could see she wasn't going to make it.

Contrasted with Marla right beside her who was just gliding along.

She looked good. You could tell she was going to do very well.

You could see she wasn't going to make it huh?

Form wise the worst looking runner on the course was Mark Carroll, he looks like he's sparring with the speedbag while he's running...could you see that he wasn't going to make it too?

Granted Sonia is not the most graceful runner in the world but her style hasn't prevented her from becoming pretty good thus far. Form is highly overrated, there are many great marathoners out there with lousy form.

I didn't see NY, but I actually consider Sonia to have quite graceful form, at least in the track races I've seen her in.

In fact (I'll be killed for saying this I'm sure) one of the most horrible running forms I've seen is that of the great Paula Radcliffe (and I don't even mean the head roll). She is a carthorse. The way she seems to pound the road is nearly painful to watch. Despite her incredible ability, there seems to be something about her style that lacks all fluidity and grace, in my eyes anyway. And yet she's great. Very very great.

Poor Mark Carroll's getting absolutely no attention back home. The media's only interested in Sonia and her failure. It's so frustrating that the only way this incredible athlete can even get quoted is by saying he'll run 2:07 in the spring. Good luck Mark.

I agree Sean. The only way Mark is ever going to get any recognition at home is to win a major championships or a major marathon. The Irish media and people are very fickle.

Paddytheirishman wrote:

You could see she wasn't going to make it huh?

Yep.

Form wise the worst looking runner on the course was Mark Carroll, he looks like he's sparring with the speedbag while he's running...could you see that he wasn't going to make it too?

I don't know who he is. Sorry.

Granted Sonia is not the most graceful runner in the world but her style hasn't prevented her from becoming pretty good thus far.

She didn't do so well Sunday did she.

Yes Sonia is a good runner and would have run a very good 10k on the track.

But she underestimated the marathon. Hopefully she will take it more seriously and do it again.

I don't care for Radcliffe, but she does have a much more flowing style for the marathon.

Form is highly overrated, there are many great marathoners out there with lousy form.

Running is not gymnastics. It is not necessary to smile and look pretty for the judges.

London is what I am hearing.

[quote]Seán wrote:

I didn\'t see NY, but I actually consider Sonia to have quite graceful form, at least in the track races I\'ve seen her in.

In fact (I\'ll be killed for saying this I\'m sure) one of the most horrible running forms I\'ve seen is that of the great Paula Radcliffe (and I don\'t even mean the head roll). She is a carthorse. The way she seems to pound the road is nearly painful to watch. Despite her incredible ability, there seems to be something about her style that lacks all fluidity and grace, in my eyes anyway. And yet she\'s great. Very very great.

Bad habits learnt early are hard to shift and likely return under pressure...I only watched last few minutes of Chicago cos it was just painful.

dunes runner continues to go out of his way to prove his lack of credibility on the Bros. Johnson board.

Don't know who Mark Carroll is. Sonia wasn't going to make it based on form. Paula has a more flowing style.

Find out who Carroll is. Shouldn't be too difficult.

Sonia's mistake was taking the lead too early.

Paula doesn't appear to be able to make it to the next corner never mind a marathon.

Wttb posted:

"Paula was racing against Men while those in NYC were racing against women. Competition makes one better; understanding the distance alone does little.

Truth; reality; silver backed glass; no more needs to be said"

Paula popped a 2:18:55 in London in a women's only race. Shove that up your silver backed glass.

Debate over.

Dunes Runner doesn't know who Mark Carroll is. I don't debate ignoramuses, its below me.

Paddytheirishman wrote:

Debate over.

Dunes Runner doesn't know who Mark Carroll is. I don't debate ignoramuses, its below me.

Never heard of him. Was he in the race Sunday?

ru4real wrote:

Don't know who Mark Carroll is. Sonia wasn't going to make it based on form. Paula has a more flowing style.

Right.

Find out who Carroll is. Shouldn't be too difficult.

Why.

Sonia's mistake was taking the lead too early.

Right. She should have started kicking it in around 2:30.

Paula doesn't appear to be able to make it to the next corner never mind a marathon.

You are not a very good judge of talent. Radcliffe is a very smooth and talented runner. Not that I'm so happy you got me to say that since she is lacking in character. But she is extremely smooth and flowing.

In contrast, Sonia was all over the place from the start, wasting a lot of energy and effort. If you couldn't see that it's okay. It doesn't really matter to me if you could see it or not.