I ran half-assed in high school, then off and on for 25 years. Started running with more discipline a few years ago.
When I read about how "Masters" should train, most say run only every other day or so and x-train in between. Don't run junk miles (or every day).
I don't have thousands of miles on my legs, which I think is an assumption of this philosophy.
Will a Lydiard style program work for a newer Masters runner? Examples? Evidence?
Thanks.
files.meetup.com/.../From%20beginner%20to%20world%20champion.doc
Tor wrote:
My fault.
http://files.meetup.com/299468/From%20beginner%20to%20world%20champion.doc
This was interesting, but he seems to be a freak of nature (in a nice way). Are there other, perhaps more typical, master's runners who've had this success?
bump
If you are relatively healthy you can get to running daily and more than that if you do it logically.
One interesting thing is the delay in response to harder workouts. Where lets say you put in a quality workout or you do a long steady run, a younger runner will be sore the next day for two days....older runners might not get sore until the second day.
You don't slow down as much as you think aerobically....
Wet Coast wrote:
If you are relatively healthy you can get to running daily and more than that if you do it logically.
One interesting thing is the delay in response to harder workouts. Where lets say you put in a quality workout or you do a long steady run, a younger runner will be sore the next day for two days....older runners might not get sore until the second day.
You don't slow down as much as you think aerobically....
Thanks. Right now I'm running every day, but I'm alternating recovery days with harder days. Are these "junk" miles or is there good physiological reasons for these recovery runs?
how old are you?
Right now I'm running every day, but I'm alternating recovery days with harder days. Are these "junk" miles or is there good physiological reasons for these recovery runs?
Whether you call 'em "junk" or "recovery" they're training, and they're useful so long as you aren't overtraining and/or ruining your harder workouts by not recovering sufficiently.
As a 43 year old adult-onset runner of modest talent, running twice a day - when I'm motivated to do it - feels great and works very well for me.
Overtraining, junk miles....other words that shouldn't need to be said.
You can run almost limit-lessly at near any age if you go slow enough and careful enough. Of course if you want to perform well within your ability and age, then you do want to run faster and or steadier.
To overtrain you would need to do a ridiculous amount of miles. Junk miles aren't junk miles if you are running within your ability to run, recover and run again, daily or more often than that.
You want to develop the ability to run 3 long runs per week - all quite strong, leaving yourself pleasantly fatigued at the end - not wasted.
Other runs can be short 'n easy for recovery. You should do alactic strides every week on a soccer field, under 10 seconds with full recovery.
You can do a fartlek run, go hard, but go by feel and don't dip into the anaerobic level much or at all.
Do 2 90-ish minute runs and 1, 2 to 3 hour run - make them steady. You can run tons of very easy extra mileage too - helps with recovery. Forget negative terms like junk mileage, pounding, over-training etc etc.
Run by time, not distance. Only read the watch and HRM when you are done. Love trail running and hills.
Keep it simple. If someone wants to tell you how long your foot should be planted each time or breath in a certain number of times per minute or have so many steps per minute, just ignore. Just run.
But do try to keep good form - hills and alactic strides will help with that.
Do 2 to 3 or 4 or 5 months of that, then the next step...
Wet Coast wrote:
Overtraining, junk miles....other words that shouldn't need to be said.
You can run almost limit-lessly at near any age if you go slow enough and careful enough. Of course if you want to perform well within your ability and age, then you do want to run faster and or steadier.
To overtrain you would need to do a ridiculous amount of miles. Junk miles aren't junk miles if you are running within your ability to run, recover and run again, daily or more often than that.
You want to develop the ability to run 3 long runs per week - all quite strong, leaving yourself pleasantly fatigued at the end - not wasted.
Other runs can be short 'n easy for recovery. You should do alactic strides every week on a soccer field, under 10 seconds with full recovery.
You can do a fartlek run, go hard, but go by feel and don't dip into the anaerobic level much or at all.
Do 2 90-ish minute runs and 1, 2 to 3 hour run - make them steady. You can run tons of very easy extra mileage too - helps with recovery. Forget negative terms like junk mileage, pounding, over-training etc etc.
Run by time, not distance. Only read the watch and HRM when you are done. Love trail running and hills.
Keep it simple. If someone wants to tell you how long your foot should be planted each time or breath in a certain number of times per minute or have so many steps per minute, just ignore. Just run.
But do try to keep good form - hills and alactic strides will help with that.
Do 2 to 3 or 4 or 5 months of that, then the next step...
For the person who asked my age - 48.
For this response - great stuff - many thanks. I've noticed I feel better after doing a very easy run the day after a harder run. Sounds counter-intuitive. But I guess my body knows best.
What are you trying to run this year?
I don't think Lydiard was employed by anyone
What do you mean you don't think Lydiard was employed by anyone?
Wet Coast wrote:
Overtraining, junk miles....other words that shouldn't need to be said.
You can run almost limit-lessly at near any age if you go slow enough and careful enough. Of course if you want to perform well within your ability and age, then you do want to run faster and or steadier.
To overtrain you would need to do a ridiculous amount of miles. Junk miles aren't junk miles if you are running within your ability to run, recover and run again, daily or more often than that.
You want to develop the ability to run 3 long runs per week - all quite strong, leaving yourself pleasantly fatigued at the end - not wasted.
Other runs can be short 'n easy for recovery. You should do alactic strides every week on a soccer field, under 10 seconds with full recovery.
You can do a fartlek run, go hard, but go by feel and don't dip into the anaerobic level much or at all.
Do 2 90-ish minute runs and 1, 2 to 3 hour run - make them steady. You can run tons of very easy extra mileage too - helps with recovery. Forget negative terms like junk mileage, pounding, over-training etc etc.
Run by time, not distance. Only read the watch and HRM when you are done. Love trail running and hills.
Keep it simple. If someone wants to tell you how long your foot should be planted each time or breath in a certain number of times per minute or have so many steps per minute, just ignore. Just run.
But do try to keep good form - hills and alactic strides will help with that.
Do 2 to 3 or 4 or 5 months of that, then the next step...
What is the next step?
To the other poster, I'm mostly running 10K's to half-marathons, but want to do a decent marathon in a year.
Wet Coast is absolutely right.
Do yourself a favor and get Keith Livingston’s Book "Healthy Intelligent Training"
Also check out lydiardfoundation.org
Feel free to send me an email. I don't want to take this completely off-line, as there is value in this conversation, but ping me an email anyway....click on my name.
Yes xrc,
And now there is a second edition of Healthy Intelligent Training out.
Also check out the facebook group for the Lydiard Foundation.
If you join the actual foundation though, you will have access to all sorts of materials and level of coaches that you cannot otherwise just ask questions to.
Wet Coast, I think I have the second addition and I am also on the Facebook group.....have not joined the foundation yet.Livingston put forwards some interesting ideas on weight training that I was unfamiliar with......have you heard any feedback from a distance runner who has tried it?
Wet Coast wrote:
Yes xrc,
And now there is a second edition of Healthy Intelligent Training out.
Also check out the facebook group for the Lydiard Foundation.
If you join the actual foundation though, you will have access to all sorts of materials and level of coaches that you cannot otherwise just ask questions to.
xcr,
Much of the feedback I hear comes from one of two distinct perspectives:
1.) The wow factor, where the runner says, "ok now I get it" - finally. It's like saying something to someone and they aren't listening, so it's all deaf ears. Give them the book and they engage in meaningful conversation for the first time.
2.) "I knew all this - great read - awesome explanation and modernization of the Lydiard method."
But I haven't talked to anyone specifically about whether they have done the weight training and what specific benefits they noticed.
For upper body Lydiard though distance runner's upper bodies should be light - he referred to Lasse Viren as looking like a plucked chicken.
Weight training for the lower legs is a substitute if you can't find hills - so you mix stairs and weights. Beyond that I dunno....hills are done while running - what's better than running for runners?