The best since '85?

Zat0pek wrote:

For those young 'uns that always heard us old-timers talk nostalgically about back in the day (referring to the late 70s through mid 80s), now you have a taste of what we were talking about.

It's fun, isn't it?

Sort of. On the other hand, back then, millions more East Africans lived in such poverty that they weren't capable of running world-class performances.

Feeling nostalgic about the weakness of your competition is...well not terribly virtuous.

Yeah, too bad poverty stopped Henry Rono, and Miruts Yifter, and Paul Ereng, and John Ngugi, and . . . oh wait, East Africans were pretty good at running back then too.

I'm not sure Symmonds will end up ranking in the 8. He was well beaten in a lot of his races, esp. Paris & Monaco. Wheating won't rank in the 8 or the 15, as he didn't run enough high-caliber races in either event, though he looks likely to crack the world top 10 in the coming years. Manzano, who you omitted, is a good bet to rank somewhere in the 6-10 range in the 1500.

In the 5K, both Lagat and Solinsky will certainly rank. The 10 is trickier to prognosticate. I'm confident Solinsky will be in the top 10 but Rupp is doubtful, despite turning in the #5 time on the year. I assume the bulk of ranking places will be taken up by the top finishers at the African & Kenyan champs, with Menjo (despite his bomb in Nairobi) and possibly Salel thrown in as well.

So if I were to wager, the U.S. will have 1 guy in the 15, 2 in the 5K and 1 in the 10. A great year for American distance running, sure, but if you're measuring it strictly on rankings, probably the strongest year since '85.

Bickford definitely earned the number one spot in 1985 but yeah, definitely not the strongest of years even for that era. I believe he went 27:35 and also beat the defending Olympic Champion head to head. I seem to recall the third ranking going to Seko who ran 27:50 that year.

Bick also ran a 13:13 5000 that year which at the time was number 4 on the all-time U.S. list.

Zat0pek wrote:

For those young 'uns that always heard us old-timers talk nostalgically about back in the day (referring to the late 70s through mid 80s), now you have a taste of what we were talking about.

It's fun, isn't it?

It was amazing indeed, but don't act like that was typical back then.

For the poster who managed to name 4 East Africans from a decade + of running, congrats. You are a fantastic example of anecdotal evidence. Get real.

Wendell Gee wrote:

Zat0pek wrote:

For those young 'uns that always heard us old-timers talk nostalgically about back in the day (referring to the late 70s through mid 80s), now you have a taste of what we were talking about.

It's fun, isn't it?

It was amazing indeed, but don't act like that was typical back then.

For the poster who managed to name 4 East Africans from a decade + of running, congrats. You are a fantastic example of anecdotal evidence. Get real.

Samson Kimombwas, Suleiman Nyambui, Naftali Temu, Kip Keino, Mamo Wolde, Abebe Bikila, Mohamed Kedir, Mike Musyoki, Kip Kimeli, Ben Jipcho, Filbert Bayi, Abdi Bile, Peter Koech...

Get real about what? My only point was that there were some good runners from the eastern part of Africa in the 80s and before. What sort of evidence would you like other than a list of names? If someone claimed said that Britain had never produce any good milers, would "How about Sebastian Coe, Steve Ovett, Steve Cram and Peter Elliott" be an inappropriate response?

Not sure about Symmonds either, but he has a reasonable shot. Solinsky and especially Rupp are helped by the absence of a global championship or major European 10,000 (though the African Championships will certainly play a role).

If it happens, I'll be interested in seeing how many other countries have a ranker in each of those same four distances. Kenya, obviously, but not sure who else might.

With Webb returning back to form, Wheating having a pro season under his belt, Ritz and Teg hopefully staying healthy, and the likes of Solinsky, Lagat and Leo continuing to do their thing, next year could be even better.

Well, my prediction came true. I got my T&FN yesterday. It's at home and I don't have the exact rankings in front of me and they're not on the website yet but here are the U.S. rankers and my best memory of about where they world ranked:

800: Symmonds (6th-ish), Wheating (10th)

1500: Manzano (6th-ish), Wheating (9th).

5000: Lagat (5th-ish); Solinsky (8th-ish).

10,000: Solinsky (3rd)

Quick notes, in no particular order:

* Leo ranks ahead of Wheating when (1) Wheating was 2-0 against him; (2) Leo laid an egg in a couple of races; and, (3) Wheating had a better mark (although marks are the least important criteria in the rankings). Leo had, I believe five top-three finishes late in the season. Very solid ranking by Leo.

* Wheating double world-ranks in his first pro season. Damned impressive by any measure.

* Solinsky double ranks with a high of 3rd in the 10,000. Again, damned impressive by any measure. However, the 10,000 ranking has to be viewed in light of the fact that there were no international championships and no Euro circuit races at the distance. Rupp didn't make the cut. The African Championships played a big role, as would be expected.

* We have two double rankers (Wheating and Solinsky) and had two rankers in each event except the 10,000. Simply a superb year for U.S. distance running, despite "the big three" (Webb, Ritz and Hall) all being off their game due to injury/training issues.

mcgato wrote:

If you are a subscriber to TFN, you should also sign up for their e-newsletter. They published the rankings last week in that. You got the rankings mostly right.

800: 6 Symmonds, 10 Wheating

1500: 6 Manzano, 9 Wheating

5000: 6 Lagat, 8 Solinsky

10000: 3 Solinsky

I do get the newsletter, but the only ones I have received are the lists, not the rankings. I'll check my in box for the rankings.