Jack Daniels the Overestimator

markeroon wrote:

wellnow wrote:

Daniels' research suggest very strongly that maximum oxygen uptake has a genetic limit and that it doesn't take much training to reach this limit. Also that we reach this limit at an early age.

To improve endurance, you do more and more training at appropriate paces.

With this in mind, what is your view on peaking?

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Assuming you have good health on the big day, I think peaking is mostly mental. You just push harder, your expectation is higher, you take more out of yourself, you need longer to recover.

wellnow wrote:

Assuming you have good health on the big day, I think peaking is mostly mental. You just push harder, your expectation is higher, you take more out of yourself, you need longer to recover.

That's interesting, thanks.

You're welcome. Regarding tapering, although you didn't ask, it's worth a mention, but I don't really have strong opinions on the subject. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Does that come down to mental factors?

wellnow wrote:

You're welcome. Regarding tapering, although you didn't ask, it's worth a mention, but I don't really have strong opinions on the subject. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Does that come down to mental factors?

It's possible that if someone has trained very hard throughout a season (keeping volume high, even in race weeks) and has some accumulated fatigue, a period of lesser intensity prior to a race will do wonders for a result. If an individual has had more than sufficient rest built into their season, any substantial removal of work will result in a loss of fitness/efficiency.

Does this make sense? I used to think in terms of balancing aerobic fitness and 'sharpness', but I'm starting to see holes in that way of thinking.

Daniels - The tables come from performance. Training paces are for a well trained athlete. If you are not well trained, your paces will be off even if your performance fits one of the table values. In a similar way, if you look at the IAAF points table, you will probably find that you "match" the table across a few events. Endurance people have higher values at longer races, speed people have higher values at shorter races. Daniels translates this race performance to training paces for specific types of workouts. VDOT is just a number (like the IAAF Points) to give you to a reasonable set of training paces for your level of performance. Really this keeps you from getting out of control as most people train too fast if left to their own devices.

Peaking - Read some Lydiard on this. He does a ton of short "sharp" sprints near the end of a cycle. This increases the efficiency or neuro-muscular effect at high speed, but cannot be sustained for very long. Long steady running can be sustained. So you get strong first, then you get fast. Viola, you are peaked. I agree that there is a large mental factor here also, but the body must be ready to run fast. Often this helps the mind to be ready to run fast. It's circular. Feel the flow, Happy.

I always overestimate how much Jack Daniels I can handle at the bar

Is jtupper really jack daniels???? Wejo and rojo should give him a thing under his name like canova. He's a very good resource for people who want advice.

markeroon wrote:

wellnow wrote:

You're welcome. Regarding tapering, although you didn't ask, it's worth a mention, but I don't really have strong opinions on the subject. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Does that come down to mental factors?

It's possible that if someone has trained very hard throughout a season (keeping volume high, even in race weeks) and has some accumulated fatigue, a period of lesser intensity prior to a race will do wonders for a result. If an individual has had more than sufficient rest built into their season, any substantial removal of work will result in a loss of fitness/efficiency.

Does this make sense? I used to think in terms of balancing aerobic fitness and 'sharpness', but I'm starting to see holes in that way of thinking.

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Yes markeroon, that makes sense. Also, a huge factor in how we perform on the big day is confidence.

ken bob wrote:

Is jtupper really jack daniels????

Yes.

jtupper wrote:

A few things (1) sorry we chose "VDOT" rather than "fitness quotent" or some other key word to put in one of those old computers. (2) Interesting that no-one has yet suggested where the word "VDOT" came from, as it certainly has a valid use. (3) There is a rather simple formula that converts a VDOT value to its corresponding vVO2max. By the way I was the originator of the term "vVO2max," anyone know the original definition as it was presented?

Dr Daniels, your vVO2max refers to the slowest pace which will elicit maximum oxygen uptake, but what is the fastest pace? Would it be a 400m flat out effort in most runners?

wellnow wrote:

Dr Daniels, your vVO2max refers to the slowest pace which will elicit maximum oxygen uptake, but what is the fastest pace? Would it be a 400m flat out effort in most runners?

I'm not sure the question makes sense without clarification. Any pace faster than vVO2max will elicit maximum oxygen uptake. There are probably paces that can't be sustained long enough for one's metabolism to go from nominally resting to maximum oxygen uptake before the pace begins to drop, for instance one probably doesn't begin to approach VO2max in a 100 m sprint. I think what you're looking for is the shortest race distance in which runners will hit maximum oxygen uptake. Without claiming any special expertise, my guess would be 400 or 800 leaning toward the latter for elite athletes.

I thought I had made that clear enough, but yes your clarification is indeed more clarifiderated.

I read on one of these threads a few years ago that during an 800m race, we reach VO2max at around 70 seconds, but I can't remember the race pace stated for that example.

I completely agree, ken bob.

It'll be interesting to keep an eye on his Brevard team this season & the next few seasons as he builds that program.