sub 17 5k thread

I think you need to do some fast stuff starting yesterday - Fartlek can mean a few different things, so that could cover it. But you have to get to the point where 5:30 pace feels comfortable - you won't get there with just a lot of miles and a tempo.

I would start today doing 20 x 200 at 3k pace or 10 x 400 at 5k pace, working on feeling smooth - as if you could run those paces for 10 or 17 minutes. If you are straining and on really dreading the second half of the workout, then slow down, you're not ready for 5:30 pace.

You only have 8 weeks left, so I would not wait to do this.

I have the same goal - good luck!

Man, i did it off of 20 mpw. I'm glad i don't have to put in 70mpw to run a 16:35

agip wrote:

I think you need to do some fast stuff starting yesterday - Fartlek can mean a few different things, so that could cover it. But you have to get to the point where 5:30 pace feels comfortable - you won't get there with just a lot of miles and a tempo.

I would start today doing 20 x 200 at 3k pace or 10 x 400 at 5k pace, working on feeling smooth - as if you could run those paces for 10 or 17 minutes. If you are straining and on really dreading the second half of the workout, then slow down, you're not ready for 5:30 pace.

You only have 8 weeks left, so I would not wait to do this.

I have the same goal - good luck!

I kind've agree but I do not think speed is going to take me anywhere without a really strong base. The state meet is Novemeber 7th and I want to be the best there. I have been doing some striders and will probablly do your 20 by 200 next week sometime.

I plan on really hammering some workouts during august and some plyos during september.

Just wondering what are your pr's?

just ignore the two posters above me. This seems like a good summer base plan. The mileage with the doubles a long run seem good to. Just keep doing this and you should be good. The only thing i would add for summer base is some strides or 200s to get your legs moving two times a week. What is your pr anyway?

I havent ran a 5k since last cross country so really no clue where I will be. During track my best was a 5:06 1600 and an 11:04 3200. So not too good, but I did this off of 45 mpw and pretty much lost focus of longer runs during the season which hurt me. But it was my first time ever building a base.

I got sub 16 (15:46) off 40mpw. I've basically always done one long run, one tempo, and one interval workout per week when I'm not building a base. 6 days a week, cross-train on the day off. Good bit of core and lifting as well.

To me, it seems like 72 a week is overkill for a sub 17. If you're doing 72 a week and still can't get sub 17, switch something up on your workouts.

get rid of the of the tempo run for now. Get some well needed intervals. If you cant run sub 17 yet bring milage down to 50 55 miles a week. Make your long run your tempo. Run moderate and push last 3 or 4 miles on the long run. throw out some of those doubles. You dont need them yet. intervals for now should be 1k to mile. I would suggest 1k at goal race pace or just faster. 4 to 5 of them 3 minutes rest. Work hard on your hard days. For you the long run and intervals are your hard days and one moderate run mid week. Take easy days easy. maybe one double a week is good. a good schedule for you would be sun. 10to11 longrun mon.5to6 easy tue. 3am 6pm wed. 7 moderate thr. 5to6 Fri. intervals (good warm up and cooldown) Sat. 5 to 6. Good luck!

How good is your team? how good are the other local teams? how old are you? how is your coaching?

Im just asking cause a lot of the details you have given us already remind me of myself.

ok, if November is when you want to peak, you have much more time than I thought. It sounded like you wanted to peak in September. Starting with some fast stuff next week sounds fine.

Take a look at this interview:

http://www.mensracing.com/athletes/interviews/2005/renatocanova.html

Starting with the question: "Pretty much the same thing in the US"

That interview caused me to start thinking about speed differently. Canova argues that you have to train two sets of muscles - your endurance muscles and your sprint muscles. And you do them both at the same time rather than one after the next.

Meaning:

The traditional way to train for 5k is to run long distance as a base, then do 200s and 400s later in the season to get fast.

Canova says that it is better to do both all the time. ghe argues that we can't hope to get fast by doing 200s/400s just 6 or 7 times in a season. We have to do them all the time, building those muscles up so we get more top end legspeed.

You are thinking you want to build a base before you go fast - Canova would agree that a base is necessary, but you might want to think about building a base and speed at the same time.

As for me - I was at 17:18 over the winter and I have been improving ever since. Just haven't raced much, so we'll see. My first attempt is July 31.

Alright that makes sense. Let me know how you do.. my First race will be the last week of august prbablly. I might run an 8k before then just to get used to raciong again though.

nobody You know wrote:

get rid of the of the tempo run for now. Get some well needed intervals. If you cant run sub 17 yet bring milage down to 50 55 miles a week. Make your long run your tempo. Run moderate and push last 3 or 4 miles on the long run. throw out some of those doubles. You dont need them yet. intervals for now should be 1k to mile. I would suggest 1k at goal race pace or just faster. 4 to 5 of them 3 minutes rest. Work hard on your hard days. For you the long run and intervals are your hard days and one moderate run mid week. Take easy days easy. maybe one double a week is good. a good schedule for you would be sun. 10to11 longrun mon.5to6 easy tue. 3am 6pm wed. 7 moderate thr. 5to6 Fri. intervals (good warm up and cooldown) Sat. 5 to 6. Good luck!

This seems more like something I would be doing once the season starts . . .

Why should I start intervals this soon?

I agree. Save the intense intervals for August. Tempos and fartleks are good for right now. You can practice your goal 5k pace in the fartleks you know. Also, 70 miles is a good goal for your peak mileage, but also make sure you run some lower weeks as well. You want to build a nice base, but make sure your legs aren't toast by the time the real intervals start. To give you an idea, I broke 17 during a season when my average mileage was 50/week. Best of luck to you.

How old are you and do you have a e-mail

A lot of logic failures on this thread.

1. I ran sub 17

2. I ran less than 50 mpw at the time

3. This guy runs more than 50 mpw

Therefore he has to run LESS to get BETTER!!!! HUZZAH!!!!! All of you people telling this person to drop his mileage and start hammering 5k specific intervals are morons. The people telling him he needs to work on speed and efficiency are doing good.

To the OP, I've known quite a few people who have dropped significant chunks of time off of their 5k bests. None of them have done it by reducing volume during the off season and hammering intervals.

talent and base training

17, incoming senior. allstaralex_21@hotmail.com

Danbb wrote:

How old are you and do you have a e-mail

Hi, my name is Danbb and I'm a registered sex offender

edumacator wrote:

To the OP, I've known quite a few people who have dropped significant chunks of time off of their 5k bests. None of them have done it by reducing volume during the off season and hammering intervals.

What types of things did they do? Maybe that would help the OP.

what about.. wrote:

edumacator wrote:

To the OP, I've known quite a few people who have dropped significant chunks of time off of their 5k bests. None of them have done it by reducing volume during the off season and hammering intervals.

What types of things did they do? Maybe that would help the OP.

Here's one example: my fiancee was a pretty good D3 college runner, with a best 5k in the 17:05-17:15 range. As a senior she ran between 65-75 miles per week on average. The year after college, she bumped that up to 80-90 with a high of about 95 miles per week. Along with the extra mileage, she added long tempos at relatively easy speeds, as well as some short speedwork to keep in touch with faster paces. Longer work would be things like 10 miles at 6:45 pace, long progressive runs, or 5-6 mile tempos at 6:10-6:30 pace. Shorter work might be 8-10x 10 second sprints up hill, or 8x200 hills, or 200 repeats on the track at 37-38 seconds each with 200 jog recovery.

Then about 2 months before her target 5k we introduced some light work at 5k pace, such as 1ks alternating between a fast pace (3:25-3:30) and a moderate pace (4:10-4:15), or short intervals at goal 5k pace (400 to 600 sometimes with fairly long recovery), as well as some more intense tempo work like an 8 mile tempo at 6:10 pace. She also ran some overdistance races: a 12 mile race and a 10k.

Then 1 month out we did traditional specific work for a 5k: 5x1k w/ 400 jog rec. in 3:20-3:22, 3x1600, 12x400 @ 77-78 w/ 200 jog (keeping moving on the jog, maybe 1:00 or so for 200). Then she raced and ran 16:33. Also I should note that all of her easy running was done very easy, ie. 7:45-8:10 pace. There you go, hope that is helpful OP.