Greg McMillan

So you are going with the approach that if a guy has a different training approach from you, that he is wrong? Be a little bit more open, especially since he is getting results.

Anyway, I see nothing wrong with anything he says. Salazar says 120mpw is necessary to succeed for his athletes and he spends years working his athletes up to that level. I dont even have to tell you how much the kenyans run and how much Lydiard used to have his guys doing. If you can dedicate years of patience to build up to 120-140mpw then you can stay healthy there. It is a reasonable amount of mileage. 20 miles a day broken up into 2 runs is not THAT much.

Show Stoppa wrote:

So you are going with the approach that if a guy has a different training approach from you, that he is wrong? Be a little bit more open, especially since he is getting results.

I think it´s McMillan who should be more open. But why you seem to think that I am wrong? Oh, you are in the same boat with Greg.

You gus seem to be missing thg is making an effort to help American distance running. He is not getting rich. He is not living above the middle class. He is someone who is doing what he loves and is willing to scrifice his careeer in the business world to do excatly that - something he feels passionate about, and to possibly make a difference.

He does not have the super conservative rules that the Hansons have. And, he has produced a faster marathoner than the Hanson have.

He is a success story. That's all.

I think the results are speaking for themselves. The athletes are improving year by year and he's doing it not just in one event but across events and surfaces. I predict he'll be one of the best US coaches. He's young and has many more years to continue to help US distance runners.

A year ago McMillan was getting ripped on this board because his guys weren't doing much. Now one of them breaks through with a couple big performances and you say he's burning his guys out. Here's the thing: eventually Gotcher's career will be over and you can wrap yourself in whatever smug personal satisfaction you take from that, but he'll have his 2:10, McMillan will have helped him get there, and nobody will care that you predicted that an elite runner's career will eventually end.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

--- Theodore Roosevelt

Show Stoppa wrote:Salazar says 120mpw is necessary to succeed for his athletes and he spends years working his athletes up to that level. I

When does Salazar say he takes years to build up to that level?

I think McMillan is on the right track. I may be off here, but if I remember right, Renato Canova had his athletes build a multi-year high mileage base, then dropped them down in miles and really let the high intensity running loose. It really is all about patience over the long term to get the adaptations that high mileage will give you, then use those attributes to maximize your other variables of running fitness.

It is no news flash that 120/week is the MINIMUM for developing a world-class marathoner. If you read the training articles on his site, you will see that he integrates periodization elements into the schedule on a very individual basis. In fact he states that the biggest problem that Lydiard had in promoting his coaching system was that it was very individualized, despite the attempts to "boil it down" to a "cookie-cutter" framework emphasizing mileage.

Greg - If you are reading this, I want to say GREAT, GREAT responses. I thought I was reading my own words in that interview! Everything you are talking about I can relate to from experience.

We are finally on the same page and it wasn't always so. I would go back to working with you in a second after reading that.

Runners need to have patience to get there. It's a yearly process of development and you should restrict yourself to certain increases per week per year. There is no way to shotcut. Boldness will get you hurt and then you'll just go back to reading some laughable fictional book like "Run Less Run Faster" or whatever that peace of garbage is called.

Once you adapt to this load, 20 miles per day feels like 10 per day and you feel and BE superhuman. Marathon will feel like a Half-marathon, 10k will feel like 5k, 5k like a mile, so long as you crown this mileage with speedwork.

quotes please? wrote:

Show Stoppa wrote:Salazar says 120mpw is necessary to succeed for his athletes and he spends years working his athletes up to that level. I

When does Salazar say he takes years to build up to that level?

Salazar said exactly that at the UK Athletics endurance confrence on the eve of the 2009 world half marathon championships.

The full length audio clip is available on the UKA coaching website UCoach.

DUSAMAN wrote:

"...so long as you crown this mileage with speedwork."

You should copyright this. Great way to put it! Every once in while you find a gem in all the garbage of letsrun. I guess thats why I keep coming back.

No need to believe me, you can try yourself will you be better runner if you train more than 2 hours a day consistently. Remember regular icing and other kinds of therapies.

uh wohkay wrote:

Ö wrote:

Beyond 2 hours a day you don´t get mitochondrial growth anymore, and injury/overtraining risks increases dramatically.

Unless it's shit, I'm not going to believe anything you just pull out of your ass.

Is training only about mitochondrial growth? When he says "we need to be smart about how we get them there", do you think he means avoiding "injury/overtraining"?

Ö wrote:

Based on his interview I predict a short running career to his runners. Beyond 2 hours a day you don´t get mitochondrial growth anymore, and injury/overtraining risks increases dramatically.

Lydiard athletes who chose to race long-term, raced long-term with great success. 20 - 30 year international careers in track, road and cross, solid at middle and long distances.

You need patience and planning and vision. You need to understand that Lydiard's (now McMillan's) coaching is feeling-based and response-regulated. A coach needs to understand the holism of training - the entire package - the athlete learns to 'know thyself'.

Greg absolutely does and is absolutely doing all the right things.

Look at Renato wrote:

I think McMillan is on the right track. I may be off here, but if I remember right, Renato Canova had his athletes build a multi-year high mileage base, then dropped them down in miles and really let the high intensity running loose. It really is all about patience over the long term to get the adaptations that high mileage will give you, then use those attributes to maximize your other variables of running fitness.

Sort of right. Canova built Kenyans up to high quality mileage and then dropped them down after several years of this for his shorter distance athletes. The critical difference is they had a massive base of aerobic miles before they built up a significant amount of quality miles.

Have you ever heard of the Legend of Milo - the only undefeated Gladiator in ancient Rome.

Milo was the greatest of the Roman Gladiators and retired undefeated and was treated as a semi-god in Rome. The key to Milo's success in the colisseum was his legenrdary strength. He was simply stronger than everyone he competed against.

Here is how Milo developed that strength. He grew up as a kid in a rural area of Italy and his family was poor. They spent most of the money they had on a baby calf so that they would have a supply of milk to drink. But the area they lived in was very rocky and with few grassy areas for grazing. The best grassy field was at the top of a near by hill. Well, Milo's job as the eldest son was to take the calf to the grassy field at the top of the hill to graze each day, but the path there was rocky and Milo worried about the calf getting hurt and his family losing its investment. So each day Milo carried the calf to the field and then back down again. Day, after day, after day. As the days and weeks went by the calf grew and so did Milo's muscles from carrying it. So after just a few years of doing this, neighbors watched in amazement as Milo carried a full cow (the calf had grown up) up and down a hill to the pasture. He was able to do this because he was consitent and did it each day and the calf only grew a matter of ounces per day.

McMillan approach is not much different. Slowly adding more and more until he has some of the strongest runners around.

Unfortunately so many coaches and critics today are trying to take the calf out of Milo's hands and telling him to take the day off. Hopefully McMillan and company don't listen. I know I'm not.

And as for longevity. Geb has been doing 200k+ per week for over 20 years and is still going strong.

Shorter and Rodgers regulary ran 140 miles per week for year after year and had careers at the top of over a decade long.

Can everyone handle the mileage no, but neither can everyone be the best. So why handicap everyone because some can't do it takes?

If they want to be one of the best long distance (10k-Mar) runners in the world, put them on the path to get there. They may or may not make it but at least they are on the path if they CAN get there.

Nicely said

Ö wrote:

No need to believe me, you can try yourself will you be better runner if you train more than 2 hours a day consistently. Remember regular icing and other kinds of therapies.

uh wohkay wrote:

Unless it's shit, I'm not going to believe anything you just pull out of your ass.

Not everyone is going to be able to handle the high volume required to run as a professional. That is one of the things that separates the elites from the rest of us.

I agree with what Mcmillan is saying but I personally would not try to get up to 120 mpw. It took me long enough to be able to handle 75.

That's why I don't quit my day job.