Verzbicas' stride

Verzbicas is pretty hot :)

is he wearing victory's in the footlocker pics? do most people wear victory's for xc 5ks? how about 8ks?

Well Porter did win a zillion national XC titles and was 4th at the WCs and a bunch of other top 10 finishes. On the track he was a 27:40 guy. Even in the 80s that didn't make you very competitive at the world level and even at the US level there were a bunch of other guys with similar PRs and much faster mile times.I think guys like Bekele and El G look pretty smooth and they still seem to have decent jets. I think you might be trying to read meaning into some random sampeling.

star imploder wrote:

When I use terms like "metronomic" and "loping", I am referring to a very rhythm-based cadence coupled with long legs/stride AND a product of predominantly slow-twitch-composed muscles. For his antithesis, look no further than Alan Webb, Nick Symmonds or Leo Manzano, guys who look "reasonably" comfortable at times, but never fluid or graceful, yet who can turn the jets on in half a stride.

We will see, when he races against those who are his peers in ability, just how diverse his true capabilities are. His expressed anxiety about getting away from the other runners at FLCC tells me that he never wants it to come down to a short-term kick.

I'm interested if anyone has insight into Pat Porter's track career, especially in championship settings.

As a coach of some decades' experience, I look to all the evidence to assess an athlete's strengths and weaknesses, that they might find their optimal path. I stand by my assessment of Lukas (he is no Bekele or El G, that's for sure- nonetheless a unique talent), and look forward to seeing his career unfold.

Big G wrote:

I think his smoothness Kind of resembles Lasse Viren. Its Scary how talented this kid is

Viren looked smooth, but in an entirely different way. He had a kind of shuffle. Not much knee lift at all, hardly any bounce, and his heels never came close to clippin' his butt. Check out his form relative to Emil Puttemans et al. in the opening seconds of this clip.

This is a better clip for viewing. Higher definition. If you don't know who Puttemans is, he's the shorter, curly headed dude in white. Very springy step and high back-kick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkXsjfVnG0k&feature=related

I agree - Viren looks like he's got very little hip extensor flexibility - hence the shuffle and low leg kick.

His strides reminds me of Craig Mottram. This is impressive since he is a triathlete.

Biking kills running economy. It tightens/shorten your hip flexors, tilts your pelvis (running in a bucket), shortens/tightens calf, and adds extra muscle to your leg that you don't need (vastus lateralis hypertrophy). Just look at Lance Armstrong...Plus swimming adds too much muscle to upper body...extra kilos

If he ran junior world xc and outdoor track he COULD (a big maybe since he loves tri) be one of the best.

nice job, poland! wrote:

I noticed Verzbicas had a big back kick, landed right on his upper forefoot and had a long stride similar to the stride I've seen on East Africans, while the American youth had varied strides. How does one get a stride like this?

I don't know, but this might have something to do with it.

About 20 sec in it goes slow motion and you can see that both Haile and Sammy Kitwara land on their forefoot and their heel never hits the ground for 13.1 in 59.xx.

run for free wrote:Biking . . . adds extra muscle to your leg that you don't need . . . Plus swimming adds too much muscle to upper body . . . extra kilos.

I'm not a doctor, but I'm pretty sure this didn't happen to Lucas.

he would be a lot smaller if he quit swimming and biking.

smaller... it means what? Is he too bulky? In my opinion, he would not be a runner he is now, if not biking and swimming, as an addition to his running workout

it is simply that he is exercising and training muscles in a fashion he doesn't need for running. the muscles for swimming and biking are not used the same as in running.

when he stops growing he will put on more weight on especially if he continues biking and swimming where it will become a major hinderance.

when you look at pro international distance triathletes vs pro international runners there is significant differences in body weight, running form, and running speed.

he will not be able to excel in running at the next level (13:25 collegiate or 13:00 pro) if continues to do both........

I call him "Silk" http://trackandfieldphoto.com/DisplayNextJpg.php?091212_1813_5719_RLM

Silk wrote:

I call him "Silk"

http://trackandfieldphoto.com/DisplayNextJpg.php?091212_1813_5719_RLM

wow, he really is bulky!

run for free, you are an idiot

nice job, poland! wrote:

I noticed Verzbicas had a big back kick, landed right on his upper forefoot and had a long stride similar to the stride I've seen on East Africans, while the American youth had varied strides. How does one get a stride like this?

Good God, are people on letsrun really that stupid?Verzbicas has that stride BECAUSE IT IS THE PRODUCT OF HIS GENETICALLY ENDOWED ARCHITECTURE. He did not get it from yoga, pilates, the POSE method, form drills, or anything else. The kid was BORN to run.

Unfortunately, his loping stride probably hinders his speed, not that he needs much at the moment. Ultimately, 10k-marathon should be his forte.

Completely wrong. A long, loping stride like that isn't efficient. It's the type of stride you see in the 800m-5K (POWER), but he'll have to change it for the marathon (shorter stride, low to the ground).

jedidiah wrote:

I don't know, but this might have something to do with it.

http://www.vimeo.com/3853579

About 20 sec in it goes slow motion and you can see that both Haile and Sammy Kitwara land on their forefoot and their heel never hits the ground for 13.1 in 59.xx.

That (that top east africans, or other top runners "have their heel never hit the ground" ) is a myth 99% of the time. I've watched super slow-mo of El G, Bekele, Geb, and the rest running track races (FAST track races), and their heels touch the ground with virtually every stride. They land on the outside of their foot towards the midfoot/forefoot, and roll inside and back. Their heel touches.

Even top sprinters often touch their heel to the ground.

And in fact, in your OWN video, which slows things down, you can see Haile's heel touching the ground with virtually every stride. Did you really watch it?? And now that he has become a 1/2 marathoner/marathoner, he is even less on "his toes." Watch your slow-mo video: he lands on the outside of the foot, towards the MIDDLE....not even on his forefoot, and when he rolls in his whole shoe touches, with the heel touching maybe only .01 later than the forefoot.

Again, this is a myth that top guys literally run on their toes. What they DO indeed do is: they land with their foot under their center of gravity (not out in front of them), and DON'T crash their heel down hard first, and usually land more towards midfoot, and then after their entire shoe is on the ground (with yes, the weight FOCUSED on their forefoot) they push off their midfoot/forefoot lightly and quickly. So there is no crashing heel in front of center of gravity, and no staying "stuck" on the ground with their body weight centered on heel. But there is also certainly no literal "running on their toes with no heel touch." That last part is a myth.

star imploder wrote:

When I use terms like "metronomic" and "loping", I am referring to a very rhythm-based cadence coupled with long legs/stride AND a product of predominantly slow-twitch-composed muscles. For his antithesis, look no further than Alan Webb, Nick Symmonds or Leo Manzano, guys who look "reasonably" comfortable at times, but never fluid or graceful, yet who can turn the jets on in half a stride.

We will see, when he races against those who are his peers in ability, just how diverse his true capabilities are. His expressed anxiety about getting away from the other runners at FLCC tells me that he never wants it to come down to a short-term kick.

I'm interested if anyone has insight into Pat Porter's track career, especially in championship settings.

Very insightful.

As far as Porter, he struggled to run 59 at the end of a 10,000. Usually it was barely enough to make a U.S. or Olympic team but never enough to win a race. He won of course many Cross Country titles when he went out super hard and broke away. His only U.S. Championship 10,000 was in Houston 1989 when he gradually broke away from a weak field.

Simply, he wasn't god-awful slow, just had difficulty shifting.

As far as Verbikas comments: they do reveal a lack of confidence in his kick. Especially if he is verbalizing this. Of course when you're as good as he is its better to play it safe. HOwever he should work on the speed for the future because eventually he'll need it. Can't be afraid to try running tactically in uninmportant races for practice.

Of course his great looking stride is all due to the physique he was born with (long legs, especially long quadriceps). It can't be emulated by a guy 5-8 with a 31 inch inseam. Not by flexibility, not by nothing.