i work really hard but my times don't show it--what is wrong with me???

Sometimes people just run out of talent.

Sorry bro.

looks like you've only raced once with that 17min 5k and felt great, so what's the problem? are you trying to run your workouts too hard?

maybe your normal training pace of sub7 is too fast especially on days you double.

Keep up the hard work. just try to come into races relaxed and feeling good and you should run well

I think you are trying to average the fastest paces possible in your workouts. Maybe you should decide on an even pace in advance of the workout and stick to it. Repeat the workout from time and time again and monitor progress. Focus on running evenly paced and relaxed.

I have the same problem and my PR is only 16:51 5K. I'll do 3 x mile in 5:20 but I need a ton of rest. I think you'll run faster as soon as you do workouts more frequently at a predetermined decided upon even pace instead of being like "I averaged 5 min pace for a 4xmile workout." Better to say,I ran 5:15, 5:15, 5:14, 5:14 and ran relaxed the whole time. I feel like I can do this workout every three to four days if I wanted to.

How often are you racing? Often when you are working out twice a week and racing on the weekend, your body isn't able to reap the benefits of the work you're doing because it isn't recovering. What days are you doing your workouts? Also, there is no need to be doing mile reps. at sub 5:10 pace if you're only capable of running low 17s at that time. Exceeding race pace in a workout, expecially one with longer intervals like that, really takes a toal on your body. Longer rep. training such as 1000s, or miles should really be aimed at stimulating the aerobic system to the point where you're almost at the brink of going anaerobic, but not quite. When you're doing reps that much faster than your race pace you're training your body more for what it will experience when you are opperating anaerobically. Unfortunately, the majority of a 5/8/10k is done aerobically, so you stressed the wrong system, and put your muscles in a state of fatigue far worse than is needed, so you need more time for recovery.

I like the mileage, but with higher mileage comes more need for rest, try putting two to three days between workouts and races. Maybe on race weeks, only do one workout.

Too many Jagerbombs?

my new haircut wrote:

MY PROBLEM: i can relax for a mile and half during races, but then i tighten up, my arms get very close to my body and stop moving and my head tilts to the side, this seems to be my problem racing. i feel like i should be running faster than i am!!!

Jump in a meaningless road race. Jog the first mile and 1/2 in 9 minutes. At this point, there will be absolutely no pressure because you aren't going to get a good time and it's a meaningless road race. So, while staying relaxed, pick up the pace gradually and see what happens when you run fast in a no pressure scenario.

If this works out, maybe it's mental.

Also, you are racing your workouts. No way a 17:06 5k runner needs to be churning out sub 5 minute miles in training.

One more thing and this will be the hardest part. In your mind, based on workout results, you probably think you should be running 15:30 or so. Forget about that. 1st goal, run relaxed for an entire race. 2nd goal: break 17:00. And so on. Take small steps.

This might be handy information.

So mile repeats with, say, half time recoveries, would be at 5k pace plus 5-10 seconds? (as opposed to cruise intervals with miles at 5k plus 20-25seconds with 30seconds to 1 minute jogs).

This would be better than actual 5k paced miles or 5k minus 5 second miles because you get about as much benefit but recover a day or two faster?

Interesting thread.

Are you feeling run-down? Those workout times are equal to or faster than what I have done, and my PR is 16:15 from last track season. However, I was almost positively in sub-16 shape during xc. My advice would be to slow down the easy runs to the point where you know you can recover and to make sure you don't kill yourself during workouts. Besides that, it's only running, just do the best you can and try not to worry about it so much.

Bump. I've got a very similar story and would like to see if anyone else has some advice.

You are running every one of your workouts too fast. Your lifetime PR for 5k is only 12s/mile faster than your tempo pace? Try running your tempo at half marathon pace instead of 8-10k pace. Your 5 x 1000 at 3:07 is almost 20s/km faster than your best 5k pace. Why are you running what should be a 5k pace workout at what is probably at best your 3k pace, and could possibly be your mile pace (we don't know)? Your 4 x mile workout is also far too fast. The first one you ran at a pace that you probably can't run for 3k. Then at least one of the others was still faster than the 5 x 1000m workout.

Slow down. Run paces you are capable of.

find something you're better at and spend as much time on it as you are running around like a fool.

Go to a library and read the first chapter of "Bowerman" by Kenny Moore.

We need to know some recent race performances including splits, race depth etc. Did you start too fast and blow up? more details please

I had the same problem and one year I started PRing constantly from 5:45's down to 5:10's for 5 miles.

1) If you are running easy then run EASY. 6:30-7 minute pace is not easy, especially for 10-12 miles. Try running 7:30-7:45 and throw in some 100m strides at the end.

2) Interval workouts should be consistent and negative splitting. If you churn out a sub-5 and then run 5:15's then those 5:15's will be on pretty dead legs, making recovery from that track workout even harder.

3) As mentioned above, your goal should not be a 15:30 5K. It should be sub 17. Then 16:45 and so on... You should not expect a 90 second PR if the previous best is 17 minutes.

4) I don't know what your splits are in other races, but judging by your breakdown description, interval workout description, etc... I'd be willing to bet that you go out like a bat out of hell and by 2 miles you have nothing left at all.

-Tell us what your splits were for that road 5K. That UNH study that came out some time ago suggested running your first mile 8% harder and trying to hold on. If I were you, I would first aim for a consistent 3 miles just so you know what your baseline is and then try to play around with it (by running 5 seconds faster in the first mile).

Cut your mileage in half. Start with lower mileage and work on your speed. There's no reason you need that much junk mileage to run 17 minute 5k's. Try to improve your 800, mile, and 2 mile. Do 4-7 mile daily runs feeling good. 2 workouts a week. Don't overstress your long run either. Do intervals, fartleks, and 4-7 mile progression runs ending fast. You'll see improvement.

You need to see a sports psychologist. It sounds like you are having some sort of panic attack in the middle of racing. Could be that you are just psyching yourself out or it could be some other issue that is keeping you from performing well. You have the chops and should be running much faster in races. Changing your training around may help if it gets you in a different mindset about your racing. But, if you can handle your training volume and have no overtraining symptoms (sleep problems, tired all the time, etc.), you should not be tightening up in the middle of a race. That is not caused by training. It is psychological. Get professional help.

check this out

you can only do one of the two: hard easy days or hard workout days. you really have to pick one. Right now you are doing both. although, maybe you could drop down to 60mpw and keep up your hard everyday routine. but don't stay at 80-100mpw and then start running 8:00 minute pace because you will be spending too much time on your legs. keep your hard workouts, start doing your easy days easy, and reduce your mileage to no more than 80. Measure your easy runs in minutes and let the mileage come to you as your paces get naturally faster.

anyway

the solution to your problem is in your question. running isn't about training HARD, it's about training CORRECTLY. like many runners, you might have some personal issues that cause you to think that you have to work so hard and take yourself too seriously. evaluate your training and evaluate your life.

you might say that running is a window to the soul

all of the above sound good.

rest up. cut the mileage in half.

all the workouts you mentioned sound hard for me and i ran 15.20. i always sucked in workouts and ran well in races.

3xMile @5.30 couple of 300s at the end.

mile@5.30 then 8 quarters at 75.

just rest, relax, and you will be fine.

Wow thanks for all the great new replies (I'm not OP), keep them coming, they're really helpful!