Would Henry Rono be a contender today?

No, he wouldn't be a contender today, he is like 55 yrs. old.

altoroad wrote:I've never met Rono, and I have read his book more than once. In his book, Rono claims that he "drank with great abandon with friends the night before" running his 13:08.4 in 1978. Rono describes his life in the next years as alternating his focus between drinking and running. So, yes, the earlier post to which this exchange refers is not accurate in detail, and perhaps over the top...

Now you're on track.

On this message board, Rono himself debunked the phony story (repeated here many times) that he had run that 13:06 drunk. He did not.

Although he may have appeared 15 pounds overweight when he ran that 27:29 againt Alberto in the pouring rain, to those prone to hyperbole, he was probably less that 10 pounds over his fighting weight.

So the fact that Ryan Hall and Adam Goucher were raised at high altitude is a knock against them being able to compete against other NCAA athletes who didn't?

Could Rono match today's runners? It depends. If todays runners were as clean as Rono was, then yes. Rono was the greatest legal distance runner in history.

malmo wrote:

altoroad wrote:

According to Rono, it is. Buy his book "Olympic Dream".

I know Rono and I have his book. You are wrong.

If this is actually Malmo / George Massey, you are saying that you know Henry.

Check.

Are you also saying that Henry was not drinking while at WSU?

Not true, saw him drinking myself, in Eugene, in 1978.

His website, his interviews etc., reveal he was drinking earlier than before it became a known problem etc., and that is usually the profile of alcoholism. There is often a build up, a "ramping" up phase where the addiction is not yet showing "life damaging consequences" in one's day to day life. Eventually the drinking is out of control, and shows up in life damaging consequences.

Alcoholics often hide their drinking, or drink alone, or drink away from those that know them -- before their problem gets so out of control that others in their lives start to notice or encounter it.

It is both an addiction and a disease, and to his credit, Henry has openly shared his life, warts and all, to the world.

He ascribes his drinking to the stress of his fame, and being taken advantage of by Kenyan Athletic authorities, and the boycotted Olympics (2). I am sure they were all factors. I would not be surprised if he had a genetic predisposition toward alcoholism as well.

One of the reasons alcoholism is so tricky for a lot of people to accept as a disease, is that in many expert opinions it is both an addiction and a disease Some people become addicted from the first drink. Others build or create a physical addiction by drinking socially and down the line find they can't quit, or it is hard to quit, or need rehab to quit. Some people with a psychological addiction to alcohol, catch on, have no physical addiction, decide to quit, and quit in one day. For others it is a demon that ruins their lives.

Now, I don't know if when I saw him drinking in 78 it was a problem for him, but clearly he was already introduced to the behavior.

on the runs wrote:

So the fact that Ryan Hall and Adam Goucher were raised at high altitude is a knock against them being able to compete against other NCAA athletes who didn't?

No, because they were an exception.

It was the norm for Kenyans.

Ryan Hall and Adam Goucher were also 18 years old as Freshmen.

Henry Rono was a 24 year old Freshman.

Where did I mention anything about age? How can Ritzenhein and Hall be exceptions when the whole state of Colorado is well above sea level? Why can't eighteen year old Kenyans, eager to advance their educations in America, be allowed to vie for scholarships as well? Would a Mombassa native do it for you?

tacomafan wrote:

Could Rono match today's runners? It depends. If todays runners were as clean as Rono was, then yes. Rono was the greatest legal distance runner in history.

Ridiculous. Rono ran incredible times while he was a full blown alcoholic. It's unthinkable that he wouldn't have run signifivantly faster if he hadn't been an addict. Shaheen is the type of runner who comes to mind.

One Who Was There wrote:

Are you also saying that Henry was not drinking while at WSU?

Where did I say that?

the obvious.... wrote:

Here are some other things not in dispute:

Alberto Salazar's age as a Freshman at Oregon: 18

Henry Rono's age as a Freshman at WSU: 24 (The IAAF has his birthdate as 12/02/1952).

Age difference: 6 years.

Alberto Salazar: Not raised at altitude running since under 10 years old.

Henry Rono: Raised at altitude running since under 10 years old.

Alberto Salazar: Can pass an English composition exam to gain entry to college.

Henry Rono: Practically illiterate at English composition (how they hell did he ever get into WSU, he could not get in today.)

Alberto Salazar: Passed his classes at Oregon fair and square.

Henry Rono: One has to wonder.

Now, no one over react, I like Henry Rono, I'm just saying those were the good old days for getting into school without much in attention to academic standards.

Apparently, you don't even realize that the 10,000-meter race between Henry and Al was long after they had both finished their collegiate careers. It was spring 1982, Al was in his prime, and Henry was generally being written off as an overweight, washed-out, alcoholic has-been. Henry was invited to the race by Al, who clearly underestimated Henry's remarkable ability to wrench himself into world-beating condition within a few weeks. Henry's performance in that race was incredible, and Henry is justifiably proud of it.

As for academic standards "in the good old days," they were very high at some schools, and very low at others. The same is true today. I doubt that WSU has been transformed into a center of significant scholarship since Henry's days there, and I doubt that either OU or WSU pays much attention to academic standards today when it has the chance to snatch up world-class athletic talent.

the obvious.... wrote:

Here are some other things not in dispute:

Alberto Salazar's age as a Freshman at Oregon: 18

Henry Rono's age as a Freshman at WSU: 24 (The IAAF has his birthdate as 12/02/1952).

Age difference: 6 years.

Alberto Salazar: Not raised at altitude running since under 10 years old.

Henry Rono: Raised at altitude running since under 10 years old.

Alberto Salazar: Can pass an English composition exam to gain entry to college.

Henry Rono: Practically illiterate at English composition (how they hell did he ever get into WSU, he could not get in today.)

Alberto Salazar: Passed his classes at Oregon fair and square.

Henry Rono: One has to wonder.

Now, no one over react, I like Henry Rono, I'm just saying those were the good old days for getting into school without much in attention to academic standards.

By his own admission, Rono maybe had a 7th-grade education when he arrived in Pullman, and he left with degrees in education and psychology.

Although his entry into WSU was surely managed by John Chaplin, I doubt that he was given a free pass in his classes. XC/track people are just not treated like basketball stars, except perhaps at Oregon.

altoroad wrote:Although his entry into WSU was surely managed by John Chaplin, I doubt that he was given a free pass in his classes.

Henry was given free passes in class at WSU. He has said it many times. He was told he didn't have to show up -- by his instructors. Henry DID want to learn, but he was overwhelmed since English wasn't is primary language.

How did that sleazebag Chaplin handle it? He gave Henry 20 dollars every day and sent him to the Cougar Cottage.

Mister "On the Runs", why don't you quit now.

You already called me ignorant because I didn't know that Rono ran 13:06 as a drunk. Turns out it wasn't true. Sure he drank, but Malmo tells us that he trained his ass off for races.

So my point remains: He was a 13:06 guy. OK, less drinking, better tracks, etc...and the guy runs 12:50. Maybe!

Still well short of what our enhanced runners have been able to do.

Malmo wrote:

How did that sleazebag Chaplin handle it? He gave Henry 20 dollars every day and sent him to the Cougar Cottage.

Cougar Cottage??? Do Tell...

malmo wrote:Although he may have appeared 15 pounds overweight when he ran that 27:29 againt Alberto in the pouring rain, to those prone to hyperbole, he was probably less that 10 pounds over his fighting weight.

we can get ballpark idea of how fast he wouda been if not for carrying extra blubber from K E considerations :

new time = ole time * ( ratio of masses )^0.5

if his ideal wt was 135 - 145

with 15 pounds extra

new time :

at 145 ideal wt -> 27'29 * (145/160)^0.5 = 26'10 !!!

at 140 ideal wt -> 27'29 * (140/155)^0.5 = 26'08 !!!

at 135 ideal wt -> 27'29 * (135/150)^0.5 = 26'05 !!!

clearly, he was not 15 pounds overweight, no matter how much error you ascribe

skip to 5 pounds overweight :

at 145 ideal wt -> 27'29 * (145/150)^0.5 = 27'02 !

at 140 ideal wt -> 27'29 * (140/145)^0.5 = 27'01 !

at 135 ideal wt -> 27'29 * (135/140)^0.5 = 27'00 !

it looks 5 pounds overweight was far more realistic & indicates he was capable of close to 27-flat that day if at peak fighting weight !!!

A lot of fiction on this website. Rono being illiterate is a lie, whatever works to fill your own imaginations, I guess. I lived on the Palouse during the Rono era, know a lot of people involved up there.

That said, Rono didn't have the flat-out foot speed of the two Ethiopians. At the Kibbie Dome in Moscow they were aiming for a sub-4:00 mile because no one at that time had run a sub-4:00 in the state of Idaho. Rono was lined up on the flat 300 meter indoor track -- unlike many posting here, I actually was there and watched the race.

Rono came in at 4:00.07. Like Lindgren before him, just not a miler, period.

Henry should've focused more on the steeple. He ran 8:12 and 8:05 in one year. Steeplechasing was almost a hobby for him. I believe his is where Henry missed the boat. I think he could've lowered the steeple to sub-8:00 way back in the day had he focused on it. (Wonder what Malmo's take is here, considering he probably was in a few of Henry's steeple races?)

Was he an amazing, natural runner? Yes, incredible. One of the greatest ever. He did not have flat-out miler speed like Bekele or even Geb (who ran 3:31 or so).

Steeple was where it was at for Henry, IMO.

My coach said that he was very good but drank a lot, ate poorly, and had a beer belly.

Northwest Run wrote:Rono came in at 4:00.07. Like Lindgren before him, just not a miler, period

his 7'32.1 works out as 4'02.5/mile for just under 2 miles

he may not have been a miler, but obviously capable of something quick for it - i'd suggest 3'34/3'35 at his peak for 1500 ( look at mo farah as a ballpark modern comparator - 13'07 & just gone 3'33 this year )

Rono would never have run 3:31i and 2:03 marathon like Geb, and never won all the "million" x-c titles that Bekele won, or run the 12:37 or the 26:17

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and if Bekele was born 30 years earlier there is no way he would be running 12.37 or 26.17

You cannot compare athletes from different eras effectively. Rono was denied his chance in the Olympics so there is always going to be unanswered questions there