DId Lasse Viren Blood Dope?

oldoldrunner wrote:

August 4th 1976 Philadelphia Pa. 2-Mile 1. Dick Quacks(NZ)

Quite a ducky performance by Dick, too!

It's actually Dick Wax.

oldoldrunner wrote:

July 31st: Marathon 5th 2:13:11

August 4th 1976 Philadelphia Pa. 2-Mile 1. Dick Quacks(NZ) 8:17.1 2. Duncan Macdonals (USA) 8:19.9 3. Lasse Viren (Fin) 8:21.5( to me this is one of the most phemominal races ever, an 8:21 two mile 5 days after running a marathon).

Actually, it was only four days after running a 2:13 marathon, and five days after winning the Olympic 5,000.

Viren was awesome.

read the thread...lots of discussion on this.

i think viren was doing something...

there were a lot of great runners around then, using the same training ideas... and a number of other finns were caught blood doping around that era...so it was in their sports culture, and they were known for having national team that was tight, and altitude trained together... so first, there is no way viren was unaware of the technique...

and even less likelyhood that any of those around him will ever admit it.

finns have a weird sense of humor, and viren only denied it (to kenny moore, i believe)when he had been told many times that he had never denied it and only offered dodgy answers before

Answering the original question ....yes, he did...no doubt about it, but it wasn't illegal, and other guys were doing it too...If you get a chance, talk to some of the Kiwis or Aussies who were running at that time...you will get a full dissertation on the Finns and blood-doping.

minnewanka wrote:

Answering the original question ....yes, he did...no doubt about it.

Clarifying that answer . . . anonymous posters on this message board have no knowledge about whether he did or not.

I doubt that he did in 1972. I have less confidence about 1976 and 1980.

Avocados Number wrote:

Clarifying that answer . . . anonymous posters on this message board have no knowledge about whether he did or not.

why do you need to clarify? he did do it. no need to be a smart ass.

To that question, Viren stated that his secret was 'reindeer milk'.

you are the cutest wrote:

Avocados Number wrote:

Clarifying that answer . . . anonymous posters on this message board have no knowledge about whether he did or not.

why do you need to clarify? he did do it. no need to be a smart ass.

No. That's notbeing a smart ass. That's an acknowledgement that no one really knows but that there is no shortage of people who have no knowledge but who also have opinions that they want to pass off as fact.

I suppose his strange sense of humor could be why he has fueled the speculation.

If you actually knew who I was, and who I have talked to and formulated my opinions around, you wouldn't be here yakking off about "people who have no knowledge".

Let's just say that my opinions have been formed not only by what I witnessed and understood during that time frame, but also by what several world-level distance coaches and athletes (including Olympic medallists) have told me.

Note that Viren only denied doing anything illegal, which blood-doping wasn't at that time. And the "reindeer milk" comment was delivered with a smirk. Sort of like the caterpillar fungus and the turtle soup comments were delivered by Ma several years later.

100 % certain - no....99.9 % certain - yes !

None of which changes the fatc that it's an opinion regardless of who you are. Unless you have solid evidence you don't know.

I thought that Viren eventually did deny it without ambiguity.

Minnewanka, I may be wrong but you maybe the person that ran 28:38.1 On July 26th 1976, 13th at the Olympic games for the USA and then ran 27:49.8 on August 9th 1976, at the Dagens Nyheter Track Meet in Stockholm , Sweden, no guessing tonight, It's directly from the 1976 September issue of T&F News (Yeah I went to my archives).

Yes sort of like you do with most every post I read from you, blah blah....blahI am so sick of seeing your HRE on these posts about any all historical aspects of the sport, dragging out some running legend's name as proof of your legitimacy. You are no sage, keep quiet. I am on to you as are so many on this forum.

HRE wrote:

you are the cutest wrote:

why do you need to clarify? he did do it. no need to be a smart ass.

No. That's notbeing a smart ass. That's an acknowledgement that no one really knows but that there is no shortage of people who have no knowledge but who also have opinions that they want to pass off as fact.

Huh?

Blood doped or not, still incredible. Virens my hero...just the way he seemed to almost hypnotize the competition into doing what he wanted tactically.

You can have your factory sit-n-kickers, Viren was one of a kind.

that would be 27:49.77

oldoldrunner wrote:

Minnewanka, I may be wrong but you maybe the person that ran 28:38.1 On July 26th 1976, 13th at the Olympic games for the USA and then ran 27:49.8 on August 9th 1976, at the Dagens Nyheter Track Meet in Stockholm , Sweden, no guessing tonight, It's directly from the 1976 September issue of T&F News (Yeah I went to my archives).

We'll never know - Finns who were busted then (and other groups of doping athletes) maintain this code of omerta, and never rat anybody else out.

Even in cycling, very few if any riders ever say a word. But it is pervasive.

In the PBS documentary, "Doping for Gold", about the GDR doping program, the athletes who have been spilling the beans NOW, 30yrs after the fact, have been ostracized, kicked out of their athletic clubs etc.

Nobody will know for sure but him and a few others. In the US sense of "fairness", we can only say, "We don't know for certain".

If Martin Lel (5th in Olympic Marathon) could have run 8:21 the next weekend, I would have been very surprised. Doing it after 30k of racing 2 weeks before that is beyond belief.....and should be seriously questioned. But thats all we can do.