How Do the 2:03/2:04 Guys Train

this thread will be delted because it has been deleted 25 times already. here is someone naming names.

Janko Bensa

RE: Ethiopians and Drug testing conspiracy theorists 3/2/2008 2:50PM - in reply to Renato Canova Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Renato Canova wrote:

"Last thing, regarding ‚Ä‚¥"xƒsƒ"f fusan Chepkemei @‚s‚ˆ‚… @‚„‚ ‚ ‚‰‚Ž‚‡ @‚ ‚† @Susan Chepkemei : she took a medicine for cough when already not in training because pregnant. The same happened to Lydia Cheromei two years ago. Do you think that the rules of WADA and IAAF in these cases are correct ? Do you think that some lady goes to assume doping when pregnant, when she knows that doesnt compete for the next 2 years, may be for making a baby champion ?"

You might be write when you say that Susan Chepkemei was suspende taking cought medecine. I feel sorry for that, I wish they caught her when she was doing EPO. She still didn't get what she deserves.

I have been keeping my mouth closed for years, but I had to respond on your posting since I can't stand anyone defending people doing drugs for years.

I happened to stay with Susan in the same house in 2004. At that time there were only my family (my wife and 2 years old child, both of which are not athletes), I and Susan at the house. Not to mention that one day in the fridge my two year old accidently found around 15 injections 10000IU of EPO each. When owner of the house, who was on long vacation, came back and discovered the same thing in the fridge, asked Susan to take her "staff" somewhere else and also asked her to leave the house. For those five weeks Susan made about $40000-$50000 running races in USA.

So, please stop defending her.

One of the reasons is that today the ONLY market with real money is the market of the Marathon. Losing sponsors and money, the meeting on the track have to limit the invitations to few athletes in top 20 in the World, and with no too much money. Another reason is that the distances on track (5000-10000-steeple) are TOO MUCH AFRICAN, and the interest of the organisers decreases, because is not possible to organise in every meeting an African Championships KEN-ETH (with some ERITREAN and UGANDAN) run by unknown athletes able to destroy the athletes from the rest of the World.

Look what happened in the steeple : with Shaheen at the top of his shape (2003-2006), the organisers asked every time an attempt against the WR. Of course, if you have to try to better the WR, you cannot accept that the second in the World (Paul Koech) can be in the race. So, in every race Shaheen arrived when all the other had still to go in the final furlong. At the same time, in all the competitions without Shaheen, the organisers looked at Paul Koech, that arrived 80m before the others. So, the event became only more PROMOTIONAL (the lower level of prizes), with personal appearance for the winner, before the race. This is one reason because at the moment the steeple is the weakest event of the middle distances.

So, what happens ? Young talented runners from Kenya and Ethiopia (look at the incredible improvement of the Ethiopian girls in Marathon)go now DIRECTLY to the Marathon, avoiding the mistakes of many top athletes of the past, that moved to the full marathon too late. This includes also athletes like Tergat or Gebre, that could run very much faster their Marathon if moving 5 years earlier to the event.

The multitude of young athletes running the event today means that they don't fear the distance, so the mentality changed. In Paris there were 20 athletes at 1:28:50 / 1:29 after 30km, only two years ago passage for ONE athlete and 3 pacers. The athletes know that, for winning a Marathon today, you must stay in the leading group, because it's not possible that, with 20 athletes together after 30 km, the winner comes from behind. Many are not able to finish, many finish in trouble under 2:07,somebody can attack the WR. At the moment, there are many athletes able to beat the WR in a race like Berlin, with perfect weather conditions : Gebre, Lel, Zersenay Tadesse, Kwambai, Kibet, Wanjiru, may be Robert Cheruiyot, and in short time other arrive under 2:04.

Also in training, there is something different.

About this, I invite to see the other thread, where I try to explain something new that we use with Kenyans.

Don't worry Renato, the reposted message from Janko Bensa will be deleted shortly.

I cannot be sure about Susan, because what I explain was what she explained me. But about Lydia Cheromei, I confirm 100% what I wrote 2 years ago. And, for whom knows Kenya and Kenyan, to suppose that there is EPO or something else is completely demential.

There are athletes that NEVER knew anything about any pharmac, and that DON'T WANT TO KNOW. Somebody among the stupid writers in that direction know the level of antidoping control that there is TODAY in the top Maathons ? Do you read something about cycling, how many cyclists are found positive, and the type of test is the same ? Do you think that is it possible to escape if you get EPO or CERA ?

I continue to explain the same thing : if I had Italian athletes able running in 2:11 with a PB in 10000m of 30'20", why I must doubt about athletes running 27:20 (3' of difference every 10 km is 12' in the Marathon)and 2:04 ? They are not well trained, otherwise can run 2:01 ! (Of course, this is a provocation...)

Great doctors wrote:

lets not forget, they have great doctors too.

Blood refills, EPO (not epoietin alpha, but beta, zeta, etc...all forms that have no tests created for them), HGH in doses of at least 1 iu/day, low dose test to aid in recovery and so they never have to deal with the lowered test levels that distance runners typically suffer from, insulin (igf-1 long) hcg, and many many other peptides.

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Are there no doctors in the West?

The Real Mobile 9 under a new name.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Great doctors wrote:

lets not forget, they have great doctors too.

Blood refills, EPO (not epoietin alpha, but beta, zeta, etc...all forms that have no tests created for them), HGH in doses of at least 1 iu/day, low dose test to aid in recovery and so they never have to deal with the lowered test levels that distance runners typically suffer from, insulin (igf-1 long) hcg, and many many other peptides.

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Are there no doctors in the West?

I can't believe nobody's caught this yet... 2:03 guys? Only one guy has done it and it was a 2:03:59. I'm not sure if I could even call the WR guy a "2:03 guy." Sub-205 sure, but as of yet there's no such thing as a "203 guy."

People are running the marathon alot younger than they used to. Before all the top guys were doing track until they were too slow. Imagine if Haile and Tergat were battling it out on the road instead of on the track in the 90s. Who knows how fast they could have gone.

So the training model is constantly evolving, and these two

2:04 guys did it off 80 to 105 miles a week. Is that a paradigm shift?

Thanks, Renato.

The All Knowing Knower wrote:

Are there no doctors in the West?

There are doctors in the west, but most athletes that do not come from a third world country are tested not only by WADA, but by their own governing body as well.

Please tell me about the testing system that athletics Kenya and the Ethiopian federation have set up. They have none. So when you say you are in one place and are in another, or you're deep in the country where no one can find you it is pretty hard for WADA to test these athletes.

Americans and athletes of several other countrys have to worry about USADA showing up on their doorstep anytime unannounced. Do you really think that these Kenyans and Ethiopians are worrying about that?

In Iten, this is what the 2:06-2:07 guys do and some of them, have the potential to run 2:04 or faster, under good conditions.

Monday 6am - 60 minutes moderate pace, 4.30pm - 60 minutes moderate

Tuesday 6am - 50 minutes steady, 10am - track - 10 times 1000 in average of 2.45-2.55 with about 60" rest in between, warmdup and warmdown - 20' plus 20' - 5pm 40" easy

Wednesday 6am - steady 1.10 minutes, 5pm steady 50 minutes

Thursday 6am - 50 minutes steady, 10am - 20 times 400 on cinder track in average of 61-63 secs, with one lap jog. Warmup and warmdown - 20-25", 4.30pm - 40" easy

Friday - 6am - 50 minutes steady, 10am - fartlek on St Patricks loop, total 80 minutes of running with hard efforts of 3 minutes, times 10-12

Saturday - 30 km run, with goal pace of average of 3.20 per km, with last 10km getting progressively faster down to 3:07 per km.

Sunday - total rest

Ghost in Saudi, wwww.kfupm.edu.sa

Yes, I agree they are the best on the planet. The point is being the best and doping are not mutually exclusive. Have East Africans run incredible times clean? Yes. Have East Africans run incredible times doped? Yes. End of story.

Athletes are using various “biosimilar” EPO agents for which WADA has not yet developed a detection method.

There are also dozens of “copycat” or “biosimilar” versions of EPO. These are variants of EPO that are produced by different methods or exist as slightly different biological forms of EPO e.g. darbepoetin alfa, epoetin alfa, epoetin beta, epoetin gamma, epoetin delta, epoetin epsilon, epoetin zeta, epoetin theta, epoetin kappa, epoetin omega. The existence of biosimilar versions of EPO is a major problem for drug testers

Because the medicine has been so successful financially, companies in India, China and Cuba have developed drugs that do a similar job in the body, but have a slightly different molecular fingerprint. These cheap versions of EPO, often called biosimilars, can be easily bought over the internet.

[...]

“There are now a number of compounds that bind to the EPO receptor, and there is no single test for them, you can order it here over the internet and it will be delivered to you here in the UK or in Germany; Chinese-made doping substances” [according to Professor Werner Franke].

Some scientists who track and monitor the development of copycat EPO drugs say there could be up to 80 different versions now being manufactured in different parts of the world.

Discovery, Optimisation and Development of a Novel

EPO-Mimetic Peptide with Unprecedented Efficacy

Chemical production without cellular systems

Low cost of goods

Storage at room temperature possible

No potential for accumulation of undegradable parts of the drug

Combination of high efficacy and long half-life provides unprecedented potency

No EPO-reactive antibodies: no PRCA, treatment of PRCA patients possible (Maybe there is hope for Komen to make a comeback!)

Subcutaneous administration possible; low immunogenicity anticipated