Kenny Moore's Marathon Training

I have a couple of weeks sample training of his that I got from him. If you're interested, semd me an e-mail.

post it here, Nobby.

For the benefit of all readers.

and if this is true, then Moore was not the Derek Clayton type 140 MPW guy I always thought he was:

...I overheard Kenny Moore (who had finished second) saying he’d never run a 100-mile week in his life. The key to his program: a slow 30-miler every two to three weeks leading up to the marathon.

http://www.trinewbies.com/tno_running/tno_runarticle_09.asp

Also, he did at least one 35 miler prior to the '72 trials.

MarathonMind wrote:

and if this is true, then Moore was not the Derek Clayton type 140 MPW guy I always thought he was

From what I've read he ran over a 10 day cycle a long run 20-30 mi, 6 x mile and a series of 300m separated by 2 days of twice daily 20-30min easy runs.

Franque Soda: From what I've read he ran over a 10 day cycle a long run 20-30 mi, 6 x mile and a series of 300m separated by 2 days of twice daily 20-30min easy runs.

That jibes with the more general blurb I've read, that Moore responded best to hard-easy-easy. It's hardly definitive but googling brings up plenty of references who also think so, including some threads here like

Franque Soda wrote:

...separated by 2 days of twice daily 20-30min easy runs.

Yes, this is what differentiated him from many others: hard/easy became, for Kenny, hard/easy/easy.

However, I have long believed that *true* hard/easy (etc.) is a peaking routine. I would be interested to know whether Moore maintained this throughout the year, or had periods when the stress was closer to even, one day to the next. I know that "Track Technique" published "How They Train" for Kenny--once as a steepler, once as a marathoner, IIRC--but I no longer have those back issues.

[I say "true" hard-easy because a lot of people seem to think that trackwork one day, followed by a steady distance run the next, is a hard-easy routine. The two kinds of training are certainly *different*, but the actual total effort, and the total stimulus for adaptation/drain on reserves, tend to be similar from one session to the next--more like medium-hard/medium than a true hard/easy.]

His e-mail link is there. All readers can e-mail him.

Franque Soda wrote:

From what I've read he ran over a 10 day cycle a long run 20-30 mi, 6 x mile and a series of 300m separated by 2 days of twice daily 20-30min easy runs.

I think that's about right, although twenty miles would be short for one of his "long runs," which I believe were generally around thirty miles at a good pace. The easy runs could be up to as much as eight miles. Total mileage would get up to around 100 mpw during serious marathon training.

I remember reading Hard-Easy-Easy Easy = am/pm 20-30minutes easy.

He once wrote that while guys were busting their asses doing workouts, he would be running his 20-30 minutes inside the track on the grass at Hayward, confident in the knowledge he would kick their asses Saturday.

Interesting factoid - Kenny Moore (Hard-Easy-Easy) and Pre (Hard-Hard-Easy) ran for the same school, coached by the same guys, same place in the '72 Olympics (4th), yet diametrically opposed training strategies.

In "Peak When it Counts," William Freeman writes, "Kenny Moore was perhaps the first American marathoner to whow the value of track speed."

He says Moore followed "a schedule similar to a long middle distance runner, with two exceptions. He would do wome repetition workouts at 1200m or one mile at 70 seconds per 400m, which was appropriate for 10km training at that time (29:00 pace). He also ran Sunday runs of up to 30 miles...."

"Moore also emphasized the hard-easy approach to training... Furthermore, he was able to run a moderately high-level mile (4:02) while training as a marathoner. His shorter interval sessions included the traditional Oregon 16 x 300m in 45 seconds, with 100-meter recovery jogs. It was a training emphasis on quality and recovery (sometimes two easy days for every hard day) that was still rare in the late 1960s and early 1970s."

Bill Dellinger actually did most of the day to day coaching with Prefontaine though Bowerman oversaw everything. Kenny was always coached by Bowerman.

I've heard in several places that Dellinger generally had a bit more mileage on the easy days than Bowerman did.

Bowerman adjusted the hard/easy pattern for individual runners. He made a point in an interview I read many years ago that Moore needed two easy days after a hard or long run whereas someone like Arne Kvalheim was just fine with only one easy day.

Kenny Moore warm up 1.5 - 2 miles easy jogging ( about 9 minutes per mile) 3 easy 110s put on spikes stride 110 ( 15 - 16s). One 220 starting slow and building up to sprint last 50 yds. Then, 5 minutes easy jogging until start of race Total 30 minutes

Summer training July to Sept

Monday 4 x 880's 2:15 with 440 interval Easy 6 - 10 miles in hills Finish workout with 4 x 165 yds at 7/8 effort

Tues 4 mile easy jog Wed 3 x 660s in 1:42 with 220 interval repeat Mon 6 - 10 Thurs same as Tues Friday 15 - 25 miles at 6: 30 pace

Fall training Sept - Dec

Mon 4 x 3/4 mile in 3:21 440 interval in about 3 minutes 4 x 3/4 mile in 3: 30 same interval 6 miles easy 6: 30 - 7:00 pace then 4 x 165 sprinting 55 floating 55 sprint 55yd 110 yd interval finish with 880 warm down Tues easy 4 mile in hills sauna Wed 16 x 330 in 48 with 110 interval then 10 miles 6:30 - 7:00 pace, finish with 4 x 165 sprint float sprint 880 yd cool down Thurs same as TuesFri 15 - 30 miles @ 6:30 - 7:00 pace then 4 x 110 stridesSat & Sun same as Tues

Winter Dec - march

Mon 15 milesin hills @ 6:30 - &:00 pace 8 x 165 yds in 24 s 55 yd interval Tues easy 4 miles swim, saunaWed 3 - 6 x 660 in 1:42 6 - 10 miles @ 6; ;30 - 7: 00 4 x 1100 @ 7/8 effortThursSame as Tues Fri 15 - 30 comfortable pace accelerate last mile Sat & Sun same as Tues

Spring Mar July

M 4 x 3/4 #:18 with 440 interval 4 x 3/4 3:27 same interval, 3 - 6 miles @ 7:00 6 x 110 @7/8 effort Tues 3 miles in hills, 6 x 330 36" hurdles Wed 8 x 220 30s with 220 interval, 3 x 660 1:39, 44 64s 330 46s 220 30s 110 14s with 220 interval in 90s each each run 3 - 6 easy in hills 4 x 110 @ 7/8 effort Thurs same as Tues Fri easy 3 ( 7 - ( minute miles)on grass Sat competition 3 - 6 mile run afterwards Sun easy 15 miles in hills Monday workout post competition same as Tues.

Source How They Train 2nd edition F Wilt

How Road Runners Train 1980

Kenny Moore

Sun write BR profile

M jog 6 miles

T 6 x 1 in 4:40 - 4: 44 on Pre trail

W Easy day 5.5 - 8 miles in am sometimes 3 in pm on Pre's trail

H Easy day

F 32 miles

S easy

Su easyM 6 x 330 45 - 46 easy 6 miles

T Easy

W Easy

H 6 x 1 mile @ 4: 40

F easy

Sa easy

Sun 28 miles

M easy

Tu easy

W 3 x 660 1:42 440 66 330 48 220 32 110 15 jog 10 miles

Heasy

F easy

Sa 6 x 1 @ 4:36

Su easy

M 15 miles

Tu easy

W 10 milles 1st five @ 7:00 2nd 5 5:00 pace

H easy

F easy

Sa easy

Su NYC marathon 2:16:29

"The emphatic nature of my hard and easy days, especially easy, is best for me, and probably best for all those runners who seem to get hurt or sick with regularity."

Description: Bowerman system, hard day, easy day(s). "The basis for all training is that an organism exposed to stress will adjust (get stronger or faster) if allowed to recover. But if it never rests, it just stays tired." "A typical period of training between Alamosa and Mexico City:

Sun: 28 miles in 3hrs

Mon: easy 4 mile jog at 7:00 pace

Tue: easy 4 mile jog

Wed: 8x1320 in 3:30, 5 mile jog, 4x110 sprints

Thu: easy 4 mile jog

Fri: easy 5 mile jog

Sat: 16x330 in 45-46sec, 110 jog recovery; 8 miles at 6:00 pace; 6x110 sprints

Sun: easy 4 mile jog

Mon: easy 4 mile jog

Tue: 35 miles in 3:50

TRAINING: Ken trains at 9AM and 3PM 6 days per week and one long run on the 7th day beginning in late AM. His longest ever run is 43 miles. Preferred racing frequency is once a month and dwindling. Ken's easy days are 3-5 mile jog in the morning and sometimes and easy three mile jog in the afternoon on Pre's Trail. The following workouts were done prior to the 1978 New York Marathon.

Sun--Sept.25--write Bill Rodgers profile.

Mon--Easy day.

Tues--Brainstorm Eric Heiden, embellish notes,--run 6 x mile on Pre's Trail in 4:40-4:44.

Wed--Easy day and garden work.

Thurs--Easy day.

Fri--32-mile run.

Sat--Easy day.

Sun--Easy day.

Mon--6x330 on grass(last 6 45.5-46), easy 6 miles.

Tues--Easy day.

Wed--Easy day.

Thurs--6 x mile @ 4:40.

Fri--Easy day.

Sat--Easy day.

Sun--28-mile run.

Mon--Easy day.

Tues--Easy day.

Wed--3x660(1:42), 440(66), 330(48), 220(32), 110(15), jog 10 miles.

Thurs--Easy day.

Fri--Easy day.

Sat--6 x mile @4:36

Sun--Easy day, fly to Washington D.C.

Mon--15 miles easy.

Tues--Easy day.

Wed--10 mile run, 1st five at 7:00 pace and second five at 5:00 pace.

Thurs--Easy day.

Fri--Easy day.

Sat--Easy day.

Sun--New York City Marathon, 2:16:29. Ken did not run for the next 8 days but on the 27th of October won a pumpkin carving contest at Bob Newland's house.

Ken increases his training diligence and mileage (toward 100/wk) the 12 weeks prior to a marathon. He does between 15 and 20 pullups on easy days, or more if necessary to establish supremacy.

Training Techniques: "The emphatic nature of my hard and easy days, especially easy, is best for me, and probably best for all those runners who seem to get hurt or sick with regularity."

Philosophy: "This must await a future tome-(ah, but Ted Brock has a view that is pertinent just now. 'No matter what else it is,' he said, 'marathon training is fine post-marriage therapy.')"

Training Plan Basic cycle of three hard workouts ( one long run, one short - interval workout, one long interval workout or pace run workout) followed b, taking care to do sufficient easy days after each for FULL recovery. Cycle was longer than one week.

Sample one week Run in Norway during August 1972 while preparing for the Munich OG 96 miles

Su 30 miles in 3:03 over hilly terrain, smooth largelyunpaved roads

M AM 3 mile jog PM 3 mile jog, stretching

TU AM 3 mile jog PM 3 mile jog, stretching

W AM 3 mile jog PM 16 x 330 1st 15 in 45s last in 42s 100 jog in 60s, for recovery, 5 mile easy run, 4 x 100 strides @ 7/8 effort

H AM 3 mile jog PM 3 mile jog, 20 pull ups

F aAM 3 MILE JOG PM 3mile jog

S AM 3 mile jog PM 8 x 1200m in 3:21 ( last one in 3: 12)400 JOG RECOVERY, 5 mile easy run, 4 x 100 strides @7/8 effort effort

Favorite workoutFavorite and "most valuable' might well be at odds. I loved the 30 to 35 miles runswith all my perverse soul. The most valuable is hard to pick, because ALL the bases ( speed, endurance, threshold building) had to be touched.

This is great! I love seeing the "dirt" on different peoples' training methods. All you guys who get easily injured...take note! This would be very interesting to adopt as a coach for those high schoolers who can't seem to finish out a season healthy. Generally, we've got:

long run

easy

easy

fast workout

easy

easy

long intervals

easy

easy

Pretty cool. If you ever have a chance to read "Bowerman and the Men of Oregon," Kenny describes how Bowerman first got him (or rather, forced him) to try training like this.

Thanks for all the posts.

Any more? Keep it up!

This seems to be the same basic schedule the Hanson's use, albeit with much higher mileage on the easy days

lizard king wrote:

This seems to be the same basic schedule the Hanson's use, albeit with much higher mileage on the easy days

And much faster...and I don't recall seeing them ever doing 300s, especially the marathoners...