Criticism of Runners vs. Criticism of Musicians, Actors, Politicians, etc.

The difference is that almost all elite and pro distance runners are not public figures (only a few thousand people would recognize them) and they are not wealthy (most make less than a common pharmacist at Walgreens).

It's like the worst of both worlds. They are not really rich and famous, but they get all the criticism of someone who is rich and famous.

Take yourself seriously much?

Pros, yes. Commentators who put themselves in the public eye, yes. Amateurs (i.e. high schoolers and collegians), no.

honeydipper wrote:

The difference is that almost all elite and pro distance runners are not public figures (only a few thousand people would recognize them)...

Where did you get that number? Hayward Field alone had over 20,000 seats during the trials. Plus some meets are televised. They are getting paid in some form to run, either through sponsorships or scholarships. They run in front of an audience. Open a newspaper and you can find reviews on local bands you've never heard of. No matter how rich and famous they may or may not be, you are in the spotlight if you are anywhere near the top of your profession.

You're a little out-of-touch.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Where did you get that number?

Thanks for asking, well...I polled 100,000 random people on who Anna Willard is. Only one individual knew the correct answer. So from that data I numerified that only 3038 people in the United States has working knowledge of the average American distance star.

Do your own independent study if you don't trust my numbers. But I think if your scientific methods are sound, you will undoubtedly come to the same conclusion.

If you are 18 and have graduated high school you are fair game. Pro or not. I have been to college baseball, basketball, and football games were spectators were brutal. That is in person not anonymously on a message board. I've even seen and heard some less than sportsmanlike stuff at church league softball games. It's just part of the show (usually not the competitors themselves). I'm not saying it's right or I act that way but people do and it can add to the entertainment value. In fact, when I started running I was completely surprised by the lack of crudeness in road races. People were actually encouraging each other. What kind of sport is that?

Fair game? Hardly. More like open season for poachers. Our sport is supposed to be classier than the rest.

Treadmillionaire wrote:

If you are 18 and have graduated high school you are fair game. Pro or not. I have been to college baseball, basketball, and football games were spectators were brutal. That is in person not anonymously on a message board. I've even seen and heard some less than sportsmanlike stuff at church league softball games. It's just part of the show (usually not the competitors themselves). I'm not saying it's right or I act that way but people do and it can add to the entertainment value. In fact, when I started running I was completely surprised by the lack of crudeness in road races. People were actually encouraging each other. What kind of sport is that?

The key word here is entertainment.

Yes, watching people get into brutal arguments and hearing them say things to 19 year old kids that would make their mothers blush can make for a very entertaining afternoon. People know this and that is why they do it. Do you really think Galen Rupp cries himself to sleep at night because someone on letsrun called him gay? It's all a show and the fans play their part.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

LetsRun is known for its [in]famous message board because the option for anonymity allows for (almost) anything to go. Some of the negativity is uncalled for, like attacking an athlete for the way they look.

Thank you runner girl for this post.

Unfortunately, due to the anonymity this board allows - the ultimate result is THERE IS NO GOOD PLACE FOR RUNNING AND TRACK AND FIELD CHAT ON THE WEB. Track and Field News.com's chat may be the other side of the spectrum - too controlled.

The owners of this website could decide to class it up and clean it up -- but a read through the archives sees many posters giving the opinion that they are part of the attacks and snark problem. There are clearly a handful of individuals - that take a sincere post like yours and get anonymous jerk-joy by pot-shotting what you have posted.

These kind of environment was once the norm on the web. As the web evolved, all the reputable sites put in systems that require registation or have active moderators.

What would be nice here would be to have the option - a registration required profanity etc., filtered chat board, and a board that did not require registration and allowed for the owners desired anonymous "content" to continue.

The biggest failure of this chat board, is that it brings down the sport - where it could lift up the sport.

Who wants to contribute substantial content on a regular basis to a board where at times a world class coach or athlete will dialogue with the running community; and then once they get burned by a pathetic "troll," they stop coming here.

As you state, I know for a fact that many top US athletes have decided on their own, and have been advised by their coaches and others to AVOID THIS SITE and it is because of the kind of behavior that the anonymity allows.

In the USA, track and field has gone from a sport that once had a good profile, to being a minor feature once every 4 years.

Every true track fan ought to have the motive to help rebuild this sport.

How can this site, this chat board be a good player in that effort -- when high school and younger athletes come here for advice, and while they often get good advice, they are just as often immediately slammed by some "troll" for asking a basic newbie question(then called "stupid"), or being called "gay" it is a sad travesty that the sport of running and track and field is associated with a chat board that allows this behavior.

Example number one, you post a genuine concern and question, and within a few comments you get dinged with "take yourself seriously much?"

It is good to see that there are people like you out there that care. And it is sad to see that there are "trolls" that just cannot say "no" to their own lower instincts in being rude or worse to others here.

One of the things I have always loved about running and track and field is that while there may be a team involved, you don't require a team to determine you own success. You need some natural talent, some excellent coaching, and alot of hard work, and guts...and you can be the best runner that you can be.

It is one of the oldest and purest sports / athletics around, and wouldn't it be nice to see those that come to a site with the topic of running, act like "Behavioral Olypians" instead of abused children acting out their family issues?

So Thank You, RunnerGirl, for posting this topic.

To answer you directly, here is what I know from the inside of the top of the track and field world...

99% of the athletes are class acts. This sport takes too much work and personal self sacrifice not to have some character and a sense of comrade-ship with others in it.

Rarely do I think the athletes themselves should be criticized, I think, as you allude to, their choices (dodging head to head competition, race strategies) can be criticized and discussed.

You know Britney Spears, or Lindsey Lohan may have behaved in the past to draw the kind of ire that honest, hard working athletes often receive on this site...

But I think by and large the personal attacks, personal attacks, are always out of bounds when launched at athletes who are just efforting to better themselves and succeed in what is in the USA a very small, and very insecure sport.

Sadly the anonymity of this chat board brings out the worst in a small and sickly (note proper use of term) consistent contingent of posters here.

My call out to these individuals is to challenge yourself to post contributive (as opposed to detractive and negative) commentary for 1 month.

Challenge yourself to be and act like a Class Act here for 1 month, and see if it does not make you feel better about yourself outside this insular internet environment, see if you don't walk a little taller, shoulders a little more square, see if you are not called to kindness.

Think about it, "trolls" (you know who you are) you'd never treat a stranger in line at the supermarket as you treat others here... So why not challenge yourself to the "golden rule," you just might find yourself seeing other changes in your life for the positive.

A very well thought out post, but the situation is not that black and white. Yes, there are a small handful of brain dead insult bots whose posts are devoid of any humor or creativity and basically spew nothing but juvenile hatred. But I think the majority of trolls just enjoy playing mind games and are simply having fun. These trolls are just playfully teasing and people should not take it personally.

If a registration policy were implemented, new rules should be also set for the moderators. The moderators would have to give a written explanation for each thread they delete along with the moderator's name. No more of this random deletion bullshit.

Thank!You! wrote:

Unfortunately, due to the anonymity this board allows - the ultimate result is THERE IS NO GOOD PLACE FOR RUNNING AND TRACK AND FIELD CHAT ON THE WEB.

The owners of this website could decide to class it up and clean it up

Example number one, you post a genuine concern and question, and within a few comments you get dinged with "take yourself seriously much?"

Think about it, "trolls" (you know who you are) you'd never treat a stranger in line at the supermarket as you treat others here... So why not challenge yourself to the "golden rule," you just might find yourself seeing other changes in your life for the positive.

WHYYY SOOOOO SERIOUSSSS????

Right. We pay to attend a professional Meet to be entertained. Just like we pay to see the Yankees or the Patriots play or to watch a movie or Broadway production.

Amateur sports i.e. HS and college are diffferent and should be recognized as such.

Unfortunately, we have adopted the British habit of tearing successful people down in order to make ourselves feel important or we get a high out of doing something anon verbally that we aren't able to do physically.

Thus the terms wimp, pussy and internet anon cowards.

We have reduced ourselves to the lowest common denominator in watching and enjoying professional sports.

Bill Brasky wrote:

WHYYY SOOOOO SERIOUSSSS????

Because when you really care about something it's painful to watch people who don't care treat it like trash.

geo wrote:

Because when you really care about something it's painful to watch people who don't care treat it like trash.

What is letsrun, like religion to you? Does it touch your soul in such a way that it's darker parts are a pang to your existence??? There's not some baseline of what this message board should be; it's allowed to be and always has been a mixed bag.

While there is a lot of negativity on these boards, I still think there are two pretty even halves of conversation. There is a lot of criticism, joking, and crap, but there's a decent amount of legitimate conversations.

I think our sport has a generally modest tone to it and lacks the face to face negativity of other sports. That said, Letsrun, with its anonymous message board and relatively FREE speech allows an outlet for some negativity. Now maybe it's gone a little far, but it's just kinda the tone of the board. I've been on Letsrun for 6+ years and it's always had it.

With that, I think most posters (myself included) have their "degrading, hurtful to the sport" posts, and their normal discussion based posts.

Ding, Ding. In conclusion, I will stand by the great "Ledgerism" of WHYY SOOO SERIOUSSS? And say that: let the wind blow as it may. The board is not gonna change unless they require registration or everyone leaves and/or it's just you serious-ers here.

All I can think so, in response to this, is that we can debate and complain all we want to, but there is no concerted or intelligent plan to publicize this sport in this country. I've seen all the announcements coming out of USATF and none of them have anything to do with bringing in any new audience.

It would not surprise me if some non-fan asked me "oh, do they really have track and field when there isn't any Olympics?"

As I believe someone has said on another thread, the only runner who more than one out of 100 Americans could name is Usain Bolt. Not Ryan Hall, not Allyson Felix, not any American.

Very good post, Thankyou!. It's been very sad to watch Letsrun, which has great potential, and has had great moments, become the sewer of the sport.

If you pussies want a registration-required board then go over to T&FN.