Is a 27:20 american runner from 23 years ago vastly superior to one now?

Mark Nenow

by Ricky Quintana (11/2/05)

Approaching his 48th birthday, November 16, former American 10k track(27:20.56 at van Damme meet in Brussels, Belgium on September 5, 1986) and current American Road 10k record holder(27:22 at the Crescent City Classic on April 4, 1984, point to point and loop record holder, 27:48 on March 3 in Phoenix, AZ), still remains somewhat of a mystery. The night runs, the training alone, the lack of interval workouts, no log book, no coach; Nenow is arguably one the least understood runners in American distance running history.

One thing is for certain, his methods produced results. From 1981-1989, Nenow’s drive to run with the best in the world produced 11 sub 28, 10 kilometer performances in eight of those nine years. Abdi Abdirahman is the next best American with five years of sub 28 performances. Now married to his wife of two years, Cheryl, and a proud father of a 16 month old son, Jacob, Nenow is currently living in Portland, Oregon. He spoke to us about his career, his training and reminisced about his days as one of the World’s elite.

What are you doing these days?

I just resigned from my job at Nike in August after many years. I am eagerly looking forward to working for Brooks Sports, but I won’t be able to start until the end of February, 2006. Nike is enforcing a non compete agreement on me and forcing me to sit out for six months. During that six months, I’m unable to work for a competitor which of course would include Brooks. So, right now, I’m spending that six month period doing some things. I’m actually working in a specialty running shop here in Portland, the Portland Running Company. I’m doing a little traveling and doing a few things with some free time.

I guess you were immersed in you job at Nike for those ten years.

I had a couple of different roles. For the bulk of the period at Nike, I was working on the footwear product line. I started there in sports marketing and promotions working with athletes and events. I think that is a logical place for athletes to start. I think people think that former world class athletes want to be more in the promo end of things. It was very clear to me that once I saw the people at Nike working on the product and business side of things, that’s what I was interested and wired for. In the middle 90’s, I was able to move into a product job in the ACG division and have been working on the footwear product line since then. That will also be what I will be working on at Brooks.

It will be more running related then.

Brooks is specifically focused on running. They have a few other elements to their business, but for the most part, they are a completely running focused company and so it will be running.

First off, I want to go back to your beginnings. How did you get involved in running and what were some of the highlights of your career?

I can try to touch on a few of them. First thing, I was pretty short [5’8” 125 pounds]. I started running really late, in my senior year at Anoka High School [suburb of Minneapolis, MN]. It was mostly due to a lot of reasons that kids turn on to anything really. My friends were doing it. I didn’t start running because I thought I was necessarily would be good at it. I had gotten to be buddies with a lot of guys on the cross country team in my high school and just to be one of the guys. I went out for cross country and won the state meet [15:10.3 for 4,800 meters. Fastest time of the day]. That’s probably the single most unusual stat that I had for sure, in high school or the first few years of my college career. I went out for cross country when school started after labor day and two months later in early November, won the Minnesota big school state meet. I started because of buddies and wanted to hang out and do what my friends were doing. I had kind of initial ridiculous success to the point where I didn’t even know what was happening to me. I think back and it’s kind of a blur. Based on that one sound bite, ‘Hey this is the state champ,’ I got recruited for the remainder of my senior year. I got letters from colleges and started to get phone calls the remainder of my senior year; the typical recruitment. I do remember a lot of top coaches having a little hesitation about me because I hadn’t been running that long. There wasn’t a lot to define me. In fact, there was very little to define me. There was very little to measure me. I got a lot of calls and interest, but I didn’t get a lot of offers in terms of scholarships or all of that support you might get as an athlete. Based on all of that, I decided to go on to the University of Kentucky and run there. The high school thing is kind of short like that, but that is really what it boils down to. Up until that point, I was an active kid. I played baseball. I played football. The thing I did most year in and year out from 7th grade to 11th grade was wrestle. I was on the wrestling team. I was active in all those things. I loved hockey, but I was average at best for all those things. A lot time because I was small and not big enough as a kid to be good at football, baseball or hockey. To this day, I’m still kind of curious as to why I wrestled, but I did. Like I said, I was particularly good at those sports, but I was active, that’s for sure.

What kind of time did you run at your state cross country meet and did you do any track?

I don’t remember what the time was. I think it was still three miles. The following spring, I did run on the track. I graduated high school with PR’s of 4:22 for the mile and 9:17 for the two mile. There again, pretty average. I shouldn’t say average. Those were good times, but not the kind of times college coaches call up and say ‘ What’s your mile time? Oh yeah, good.’ They were all sort of impressed that you hadn’t been running long, but then when you say ‘ 4:22 and 9:17,’ that’s not bad, but that’s not what the best kids in the country were running.

What year was that?

That was 1975 for cross country. I graduated in 1976. So ‘75-76.

Wow, I thought you were around Keith Brantly’s age.

Oh gawd no. Brantly is just a spring chicken compared to me[laughing].

How about once you got to the University of Kentucky? What was that like?

That’s a much harder story and a much longer one. It’s funny. I just made a swing through Colorado and visited a bunch of running shops. Just kind of touching base with my running retail because that is what I’m getting back in to. I had a few conversations with a few young kids about running. In my experience, The University or Kentucky program was very dysfunctional to the point it was kind of a mess and was very discouraging. I know many times through my career there, I wished I had gone somewhere else. Even now and obviously way past the time I was there, I think back, ‘What if?’ I wonder if I had gone somewhere else just out of the luck of the draw or some crazy twist, I had gone somewhere else. But the Kentucky thing was kind of dysfunctional and a mess. I think it kind of affected everyone on the team, but I think it affected me because I was so new to the sport having only run one year in high school. My whole transformation to becoming a college distance athlete was prolonged, scattered, and just unfortunate. The University fired the coach that we had after my sophomore year so we had a whole new coach. That always leads to a little interim period of dysfunction. There are a lot of bits and pieces of this that aren’t even worth getting in to. I would have liked my whole college career to have been at a more stable, much more established, much more successful, and in a much more reliable program. At the end of the day, that’s where I went and that’s the way it went. I don’t know if I’m giving you anything that is useful there.

I was curious because when I would see you run here in Gainesville, you would be pretty dominant like you were at the top of your game.

It’s sort of funny. I had a fifth year of eligibility and I was in graduate school at that time. I remember finally going to the coach and just making a case for doing my own thing and train on my own that fourth and fifth year. Coach was just fine, go ahead. Those were probably some years I was sort of starting to be on my own. I was technically running for the University of Kentucky, but in terms of training and what I was doing to prepare myself for competition, it was more me on my own so to speak. The way this all comes off is negative, but I guess all through this upheaval of coaches and management, if there is such a thing in sports, it was all high level stuff that was dysfunctional. During this entire period, there were spectacular guys on the team. When I went there, there were great guys on the team. They were great friends and I think the world of them still. Even those fourth and fifth years when I was an upperclassman and there was only freshman and sophomores, it was still a great group of guys. I hope that you can weave this in. It’s not an indictment at all of the guys on the team because just like any team, we had a great group of people on the team. It definitely had to do with dysfunction in the coaching and athletic department management.

What year was it that you struck out on your own?

It was 1880. ‘80-81 exactly. Those were as you said when you would see me in Gainesville. I remember coming down to the SEC’s in Gainesville. That was probably my fourth or fifth year. I was definitely a senior. I think I ran the 5k and 10k. I was starting to get a sense of how good I was as an athlete so I remember doing pretty well down there.

I remember watching you here against Keith Brantly. He was a pretty brash freshman who was coming off a bronze medal at the World Junior Cross Country Championships. He was talking a lot and you came in and would run a 65 second quarter, then back off to a 70 second quarter and then go again.

I kind of do remember that. I kind of remember that about Keith. I knew Keith a little bit back then and of course got to know him a little after that. He obviously, unlike me, one of those high school kids who came into college with an awful lot of resume and credential. I remember that he was a freshman and I remember thinking that I was going to be hard to beat that day[laughing].

What did you finish at NCAA’s?

This is not a ‘BS’ answer. I’m not even sure. I remember being an All-American in cross country and I think I probably was on the track too. I don’t remember places or anything. In fact, I’m pretty sure I had the plaques at one time, so I was probably All-American. I know I was All-American on the track and in cross country. The other thing I always remember was that all those races back then were about racing great athletes from all over the world. It was Suleiman Nyambui [ NCAA Indoor mile champ, 1979-82, NCAA 3k Indoor Champ, 1979,80, 82, NCAA 5k Outdoor Champ 1980-82,NCAA 10k Champ, 1979-82,NCAA XC Champ 1980, 5,000 meter silver medallist in 1980] and Henry Rono[World Record Holder steeplechase, 3k, 5k and 10k]. I remember cross country races with Rono and Nick Rose very clearly. I was excited to make All-American in those events at those times and was just so in love with the idea that I was out there with those kinds of names. And that included the best Americans too. The Albertos and the Greg Meyers or whoever they were. It wasn’t just Alberto and Greg Meyer. It was Alberto and Greg Meyer plus the Africans and plus the Europeans. The NCAAs back then were just spectacular events. [ He was an All-American in cross country in 1979 and in the 10k in track in 1980]

I guess it really hasn’t changed from what you are telling me. The upcoming NCAA Championships will have a lot of foreigners.

I think so. I haven’t paid much attention to it. There is kind of resurgence around collegiate cross country and distance running. Middle distance too. You know the inside better than I do. It seems like there were some leaner years. I’m not talking about last year or the year before, but a decade ago, the foreign element had gone away somewhat. You know, I’m probably not really qualified to speak about the present. All I know was back then, the NCAA finals had some of the same people that were going to be in the Olympic finals a year or two later. It had the likes of Henry and the likes of Suleiman and Nike Rose. You can name them all up and down however you want. That was just such a neat thing. Such a perspective building part about collegiate cross country that I remember.

So, you finished up and hung around Lexington.

Yes, I graduated and continued to live in Lexington for another 7-8 years. It was my home base. I wasn’t there all the time. I did a lot of training in different places of the country and different places in Europe. I spent a great deal of time in Europe and so forth racing and stuff too. That was my home until about ’88 or so.

When you graduated, there wasn’t a big shoe offer waiting for you, was there?

I did have a shoe contract starting in ’82. It’s not hard when you are young like that to live on a little money. A little money can go a long way[laughing]. I did have an offer in ’82. Starting in probably ’82 all the way through ’92, I was affiliated in a contractual sense with a shoe company. I was with Nike, Puma and Asics for different periods. The one thing that was constant was my club, Todd’s Road Stumblers.

Can you talk about that?

Lexington is a spectacular town. One of the really neat things was this Todd Road Stumblers Club. It kind of built up through the ’70 and ‘80’s while I was there. It’s typical like a lot of these stories in little towns where a couple of guys who ran who go out and meet in the country. And sure enough, people start hearing about it. There was a philanthropic man in Lexington who was very interested in running and took it on in a support way. It just became a well known club in the region if not in the country. In Lexington, it was just the thing when it came to running. These shoe companies that I was affiliated with were fine with me technically being on the Todd’s Road Stumblers Club. It wasn’t commercially attached to anything. It was strictly and completely a generic club. It was kind of a unique name so they were fine with me running for that club. The next thing, I lived in Sacramento for a period and I ran for the Buffalo Chips. I don’t know if you ever heard of the Buffalo Chips. To me, I moved from one city to another and I was like ‘here’s the same kind of thing.’ It was a running club that was not affiliated with anything. It wasn’t the ‘Chevron Buffalo Chips.’ It was just the Buffalo Chips and a ton of people from all ages, all speeds and all walks of life. I think those things are really cool. The Todd’s Road Stumblers were that in Lexington and I was keen to be a part of it and it worked out that I was able to be.

When you graduated, you had this shoe contract and decided to run. What were your thoughts?

I don’t know if I had any long term idea of what was going to happen to me. There are athletes that are very clear about what the sport was about. They had a very sophisticated understanding of the sport and how it would unfold and how you would want to develop yourself as an athlete. I wasn’t one of those people. I kind of shuffled through my career in a naïve way. I didn’t really know if I could run. I’m sure in the early 80s didn’t think I was going to make a living as a runner through to 1990. I didn’t know if I would become a marathoner or this that or the other. It was more year- to -year or two year periods at a time. I always knew I’d go to work. I always knew I would start a career at some point in business or working for somebody. I didn’t think I was going to run forever and that was going to be it.

Your big breakthrough was your 54 second PR of 27:36.7 at Mt. Sac in 1982[ Gabriel Kamau of Kenya won in 26:36.2].

That was in 1982 and that’s when I got my first contract. I was still in graduate school. In the summer of 1982, I would have graduated from graduate school. If my running career had been washed up and ’81 and ’82 kind of stunk, obviously, I would have taken my degree and gone to work and it would have been over. But, that April of ’82, I had a breakthrough in that 10,000 meter race and that opened the door to get a shoe contract. I also remember running road races a little more and picking up some prize and appearance money. That didn’t mean in 1982 I thought ‘ Oh good, I’m clear. I’m going to be doing this for 10 years.’ It meant that I was probably not going to look for a job in a conventional career. I was going to continue doing it for at least a couple of years.

What do you credit your break through to?

I think there were a couple of things. I was certifiably out on my own completely so I wasn’t reporting in to the team at all. I was completely a post collegiate athlete for the first time. I was freed up to do my own thing 100% which was a positive. I think there was a fair bit of maturation that was going on with me in college that maybe doesn’t go on with most running athletes because of how underdeveloped I was in high school. I came in my freshman year in college with very little running experience. I had some success in high school as I mentioned, but in terms of really understanding the sport of running and how my body reacted to different types of training or whether I was going to be this kind of runner or that kind of runner. I had no clue about things like that. So, some of the things that maybe you hit the college scene with a little knowledge, I didn’t have any of that. I just think that by the time I got four years of college under my belt, I was reaching mature levels of running. That made me much better. I knew myself better. I understood myself better. I knew where my strengths and weaknesses were. I’d just been thinking about training. I had four or five years of running in my body which in the scheme of things was almost essential for world class type racing. You kind of plow a decade worth of training into your body and it’s all part of the machine being ready to go. A bunch of those kinds of things were a culmination of that. I got a little guidance from Nick Rose[Western Kentucky Alum, NCAA XC Champ, 1974, 27:31.19 10 k track PR]. I remember in 1982 when I had gotten out of college, I was a little scattered about coaching and didn’t know where to turn. I remember talking to Nick and getting some training ideas. Not necessarily workouts, but just some lose guidelines on what to do across any given month. He gave me some ideas and I followed those.

There are so many ideas out there about how you trained. I guess I should hit them one by one. How much mileage did you do?

In that period of time, I ran a lot of miles. The 100 mile per week mark is kind of goal. This was kind of the convention of the time. I ran way over 100 miles per week EVERY week. I’m sure some weeks I touched on 150 miles per week. It was pretty hard running. Once you get in shape, your body is wired to do this. I would roll these miles week in and week out at a pretty good clip. Probably, all of them under six minute mile pace. A lot of them under 5 minutes pace or under. It was long running at a sustained pace, but my body was able to sustain a pretty fast pace back then. In terms of mileage, I did plenty of miles.

I guess you did that on doubles.

Yes, I did it on 13 runs a week. Twice a day except Sunday.

How long were you long runs?

I would run 22 miles on Sunday. That was the longest for sure.

I guess the other thing that I read is that you used to run at night.

I did. That’s one of the things when I’m thinking about college and some of those things I mentioned earlier about the program and my disappointment when I was at Kentucky. It kind of left me with two things. It left me with the night running thing and that was because the coach that was there never got the team organized to run in the morning or to run a second workout so we were kind of on our own to do a second run. I remember myself and a couple of other guys on the team started developing night runs. We’d go to an afternoon workout and we knew every distance runner in the country was running twice. We just thought, let’s do this night run. I think that was a left over from my college days. I got my second run at night.

At what time?

10-11 o’clock. 11 would be the latest that I’d head out.

I guess that kept you out of bars.

Yeah, it did, but I wasn’t going to be in a bar anyway. It kept me out of bars, exactly. I sure didn’t mean to, but it also gave me this sound bite. I’ve been out of the sport for so many years, but people even to this day and they aren’t very many that I bump in to, that’s some of the things they remember about me. ‘You’re that guy who used to run at night all the time!’ I have heard some embellished sound bites that I used to run at 3 in the morning. I’m like ‘No, I never used to train at 3 in the morning.’ The other thing was I was always a little leery about was coaching. I think again that was probably a knee jerk thing because of the program I went through in college. I kind of had a sour taste in my mouth about coaching. I think that is why once I got out of college, I was so relieved that it took many years for people to convince me that I needed a little help. ‘You could use a little guidance’ ‘You could use a little coaching.’

What were the types of workouts that you did? All I’ve read, there is no mention of intervals or formal workouts. Are those myths? What was your training like?

It was kind of the same thing every day. I used to do an awful lot of work. I think I was in extremely good shape. I probably had an enormous base to operate off of. The kind of base that you should build and then go to some real keen interval training. I built that base year in and year out for most of the year. I think the sharpening and the real fine tuning, I never really did. I used to run the same thing everyday. I would run the same loops. I had probably three or four loops around Lexington from my house that took me 70-75 minutes to run and they were probably all 12 -14 mile loops. At night, I had 2-4, seven mile loops. I would do that day in and day out and then on Sunday do a long run. Then what I would do during the day on Tuesday or Thursday or whatever, I would do a long loop on a really hilly course. Lexington is a really hilly place, so I would run over really hilly terrain. In some ways, it would be a long run of 12 miles, but in essence, it kind of did turn in to more intervals of seven times a mile hill because I was doing this specific loop. For the most part, it was strength running and plowing the miles. I didn’t get on a track except to race. I think looking back on that, it was to my detriment for sure.

How did you have a sense of a 27:36 pace?

I didn’t have any sense of that at all. I had no idea. I think two weeks before that race, I ran a 5k in 13 or 14 something all by myself at the Kentucky Relays or something. I thought, wow, I’m feeling good. I think the week before the 27:36, I ran a mile or 1,500 meters somewhere in another small meet in Kentucky too. Then, I went out to Mt. Sac. But you know, that’s what I did. I remember Mt. Sac was three or four Africans. It was Gabriel Kamau, Zach Barie Michael Musyoki and one other guy. Those guys were off like a train and I was just running with them. I didn’t have a sense of pace. I didn’t hear anything. I just tried to stick with those guys. I had a breakthrough race. Those kind of things never bothered me and I never really thought about them.

By 1986, you set the American Record[A 27:20.56 victory in Brussels. One of only three Americans to win. Bill McChesney, 1982, and Bruce Bickford, 1984 were the others].

1986. Yup. I was almost able to get it at Oslo at the beginning of summer [27:28.80 behind Said Aouita’s 27:26.11 win. It was Aouita’s only 10k]. I just missed it by a few seconds. I was able to come back later that summer in Brussels and break the record so that was a good thing. That was actually the basis of that one Runner’s World top ten tips I did a few years back about goals. When I said ‘have clear cut goals and keep them to yourself,’ I guess it sounded like I had a bunch of goals. I think that statement from me was a nod to that American Record. I’m kind of the school of ‘Don’t tell me what you are going to do, show me what you are going to do.’ So, people talking about how they are going to this and they are going to do that was just never me. I wasn’t that type of person. But I probably had it inside my head from 1982 to 1986 to possibly run the American record. Maybe more than possibly. I had a good chance of it. I was kind vectoring towards that, but I didn’t tell anyone. It was definitely by far my overriding goal to try and break that record during that period of time.

It looks like you picked on the European racing season right after college.

Yeah, I focused on track season in Europe every year. That was part of that whole drive to get the record. Back then, there was no chance of running those times in the US. All of the big meets and any of the fast times were occurring in Europe. That’s still the case, of course. I was focused on the summer track season in Europe. To me, it was the pinnacle of the sport to be involved with it over there and be good enough to get in to the field over there. Even in my later years, that involved even giving up road racing during the April- May period where there were still several races and a good chance to pick up some good prize money and different things. To me, it was counterproductive to running on the track in Europe so I passed on it.

Did you focus on cross country at all?

No, not really. I don’t even remember why. I guess it was because I found it so odd that we ran cross country in the fall. All that’s changed now. It sounded so odd that the US focused on these nationals and team selections in the fall when the World Championships were going to be in the spring. To me the kind of pinnacle of the sport was the European cross country scene which is a January-February deal, but the US was stuck in this college mode running cross country in October-November. That wasn’t probably the only reason, but it just didn’t kind of flow for me right. I was on the World Cross team one time, but I never really tried for it again.

Can you expound more on overracing and how it affects you when you are running the kind of mileage you were running?

I don’t know if it affected me. A lot of these guesses in my head are definitely guesses. I think one of the things about being so strong with no real sharpening is that when I did race, I felt incredibly strong and also got very sharp, very fast from the racing itself. But, also, I was a little concerned that I would get a bit stale kind of fast in racing. Because my training was so uniform and so similar week in and week out, month in and month out, I think it led to a little concern on my part that I would get a little bit stale very quickly. With really no science or clear evidence about it, it led me to racing to a minimum. That was just me. I’m sure not trying to advise people to race less. That was just my sense of my self at the time.

For these big race, did you cut mileage?

No, not really. When it comes to those 10,000 meter races in Europe, yeah. Some of the other times, when I’d run really fast, I wouldn’t. Crescent City[27:22 American Road Record. The record was broken by Sammy Kipketer in 2002. Kipketer ran 27:11] was probably the best example of that. I probably ran 140 miles that week. When I ran Crescent City, I ran at least 125 miles or over 130 miles that week of that race. That’s kind of ridiculous in one way. I was just so in shape and I was so ready to run at that time that it just didn’t matter I guess. Having said that, if I had run 80 miles that week, I’m not saying I would have run faster. I might not have run a second faster. I might have run slower. I’m not saying that to impress everyone. I just think it wouldn’t have mattered. That was just the nature of how I ran and the nature of my body at that time and how I was.

In Europe, did you have a sense of peak? Was there a time period that you had to run the 10k’s before you felt you lost your sharpness?

That’s a great question. No, that’s what always worried me and that’s why it was so hit and miss with me. I think that’s why the Olympic Trials set format for me was just such a disaster. I knew I could run. On those days when I happened for me, I knew I could really run with anybody. What was so disconcerting and so uneasy for me, was that I never had the formula for myself to maximize the probability that it could happen on any given day. Looking back now, the answer to that was probably guidance and coaching. I know I agonized about that whole coaching thing and was so discouraged about it. I just didn’t seek it out. I knew there were some great coaches out there. I was at Kentucky and we were sandwiched between Stan Huntsman at Tennessee and Sam Bell at Indiana. I used to think, ‘ Why couldn’t I have ended up just 90 miles north or 90 miles south.’ But, for whatever reason, I knew there was great coaching out there, but I never sought it out. To answer your question, I knew there were 2-3 fast 10,000 meter races in the summer in Europe. It was pretty easy to see that it would be Oslo, Brussels or Stockholm or wherever. I had to be in those races. But I couldn’t triangulate to maximize the probability that I was going to have a great race on the right day. And consequently, the biggest indicator of that is the Olympic Trials.

Before we started recording this interview, we were talking about the Olympics and not having made it. Can you talk about what went wrong?

I have a good buddy of mine who lives in Eugene, Guy Arborgast. I talk to him occasionally. We were recently talking after Eugene got the trials. I didn’t realize the trials hadn’t been in Eugene since 1980. It is going to be so cool to have them back there. I remember going to my first Olympic Trials as a college runner in 1980. I made the standard and went out to Eugene on my own. I was just kind of amazed at everything I saw. I think my big recollections was seeing Edwin Moses for the first time and being stunned at how he looked as an athlete. 1980. Wow, I was like a kid in Disneyland. In 1984 and 1988, I was a legitimate contender to make the team. In both case, I didn’t make it. Just like any time, those kind of things happen. You walk away with this mix bag of emotions. For me, the big one was always embarrassment [laughing]. I never really was crushed by it on a personal or human level. It’s like, I always had other things that balanced me out, but it was embarrassing though. It’s just the way it was and there is not much you can do about it now. Going back to the comments about being able to triangulate. I always felt able from a talent and ability standpoint. That’s legitimate. What I didn’t really feel able about was that ability to make it happen on the right day. I came away from the ’84 and the ’88 trials embarrassed really.

What do you think about the World Record now?

[Laughing] I think it’s spectacular. I was just in Denver staying in an apartment with Tom Radcliffe, my friend, who is an agent for quite a few of the Kenyan and African runners. I stayed with him for a few days and he’s working with him along with Dieter Hogen, their coach. Anyway, it was such a neat thing for me. I was staying in this apartment with a half a dozen of the Africans guys. You just can’t think anything of just how amazing and spectacular and how fast these guys can run. How gifted they are. I don’t know what to say. It’s staggering and awesome. I can’t imagine it.

You were around when there were a lot of guys running very well in the US. When you left there was a dead period of no depth for ten years or so. What do you think that dead period was due to?

That’s that kind of 15-20 year old discussion that I haven’t engaged in much. I think part of the reason is that I kind of come up a little empty on it myself. I’ve heard all the different opinions. Some are based in some sound thought and science. Some are just kind of wacky speculation. They range from social things from how inactive our society is to soccer taking all the talent. The NCAA ban on older foreign athletes took some of the Africans and foreign contingent out of the NCAA’s. I’ve heard all of those reasons. I hear where they all are coming from. I can understand the logic. But, I don’t have an answer for that. Who knows? Because you have guys like Bob Kennedy and then there are guys that come along who are better than ever. Who knows?

You did make the first World Championships in track in 1983. Any thoughts?

I guess I made it once. I can’t remember if I made 1987. I think I passed up on it. I was trying to just run open track. Just one cross country and one track team. Geez.

How many times did you win the USA track and field championships?

I don’t know. I think I only ran them once or twice. That’s another meet I would skip because it didn’t mean anything. The Olympic Trials was a big thing. In 1983, you had the World Championship so I obviously ran that. That was another meet that didn’t make any sense to me. To go to the US championships on an odd year and run there when you’re meaning to be in Europe, didn’t make sense. I didn’t skip them all the time, but I didn’t run those very much and they sure didn’t matter to me very much. [ Nenow never won the 10k USA Champs]

You were running against foreigners and you have never seemed incapable of running with them or were not intimidated. I guess you had a real drive to run with the best in the world.

I think I did. I remember clearly that I was spending a heck of a lot of time doing this. I worked my butt off doing it. I mean the training. And I was compromising and sacrificing a lot. It’s a real lonely thing to do all that training. When it ended, I have to say, it was such a relief. It’s such a lonely singular closed off life. I wanted to be in the big races and be where the best people were. I never felt intimidated by it. If anything, I was more intimidated by my training and that piece earlier when we spoke of me not being able to triangulate and nail the day through my training. But, I was never intimidated. I was always eager to get into races with big names and the best.

What would you rate your best performance of your career?

I think so much of that is what you feel like. I think Brussels is probably the most logical on paper. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I felt like a million bucks when I ran the 10,000 meter American Record. I think Brussels on paper would be the answer. But when I factor in what I remember how my body felt like when I ran, it’s that race in New Orleans. Road times are nowhere near as impressive as track times for easy reasons to understand. The track is the Real McCoy. When I think back to that day, that was probably the single day that my body was on fire to run 10,000 meters.

I read that 50% of your training you did by yourself.

How much?

50%.

Of my training? Oh no. I would say 95% of it.

95%?

Of my training? Yeah, I never trained with anybody. 95% is probably a low number.

Wow! That’s pretty amazing. That truly is the loneliness of the long distance runner.

Sometimes I think back to it and it makes me shutter a little bit. Geez, 50%. You make me seem like a….

Social butterfly?

Exactly. It was just one guy going down the road.

Did you go out of your way not to run with anyone?

Let’s just say that there weren’t any athletes in Lexington doing what I would do. What I did go out of my way to do was to not go to these hotbeds of training and groups. I never wanted to go to Eugene. I never wanted to go to Boulder. I just knew that I didn’t want to be in one of those fishbowls where everybody was. Lexington worked out pretty well. That had to be a little reaction to the college thing. The whole thing. If you write this verbatim, this is going to look awful for UK. I don’t know how much of that was just a knee jerk reaction.

You would take 4-6 week breaks.

Yes. That was another weird thing. Not weird thing. I would quit running on Thanksgiving day and not begin running until the beginning of the new year.

Did you go nuts?

No. Actually, four to five weeks go by in a flash. I didn’t go nuts at all. It was just part of the deal. I guess the holidays and to be with family. It didn’t seem bad at all. I guess I thought it was good too because I rested up.

How did you start back?

I’d be back running a lot right away. I think I would probably run once a day for the first week and probably be going hard by the second or third week. I remember one thing. I never gained weight so that was lucky. If you have the wrong body type, four or five weeks, you can pack on a good ten pounds. I wouldn’t gain a pound so that helped. I remember by the middle of January, I was going hard again. Over 100 miles per week.

Did you ever try the marathon?

Yeah, I ran New York one year. I was trying to remember this the other day. I think it was 1988 or 1989. I don’t remember. I think I was sixth. Sixth or eighth. [1988, 8th place, 2:14:21. Age 30]

What did you run?

2:14 [laughing]

What are your reflections on the marathon?

[Laughing] I ran it too late. I should have done it many years earlier. I was having a little injury problems then and was starting to see some of the writing on the wall. I would say I was on the downhill side of this running career I had. Racing is not something you want to do if you are not 100% and the marathon is definitely not something you want to do at less than 100% . I just ran one. Tony Reavis reminds me of the comment I made afterwards. At least he said I did. He said I said, ‘ My whole career, I never respected a 2:14 marathoner. Now, I am one.’ I haven’t seen him in years, but the last time I did see him, he reminds me of that. I guess I said it. All that means was that my expectations were much higher than 2:14.

I guess your Achilles was your downfall.

No, I had some hamstrings issues. Kind of compartment issues with my hamstrings. Kind of up high where the hamstring attaches. 1988 –1990, I had a couple of surgeries and never got back.

Treadmillionaire wrote:
Tasteless wrote:
What improvements? Really? Aside from drugs, what has so drastically changed over the past 23 years that makes it so much easier than 1985? Shoes? No. Track surfaces? No. Human physiology? No. Nutrition? No.
1. Ipods are much lighter than walkmans were.
2. Subway can now toast sandwiches.
3. Soda switched from sugar to corn syrup.
4. Nike shocks have springs in them.
5. Stopwatches can tell you how fast your heart beats.
6. We found out women won't die if they break a sweat.
7. Lays potato chips have 0g. trans fat.
8. People say "run forest run" when they see you work out, as opposed to whatever they used to say.
9. You can carry your water on a utility belt like batman.
10. Facebook.

You are forgetting three crucial facts:

1. They did have Camelbaks back then, and they are faster than fuel belts.

2. The gap between men's and women's records was actually smaller in the "women don't sweat" era than now.

3. Snackwells not only didn't have 0g trans fat, they had no fat at all.

4. Usenet

Is a 27:20 american runner from 23 years ago vastly superior to one now?

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