Why in a race do I always do worse than a training run?

it seems u run too "hard" during practice, so u lose ur "speed"...aka ur reserves

i had teh same problem...ran 17's in the middle of tempo runs,..but ended up running barely 18 in a race...

dont run too hard too frequently before a race...u need to save ur reserves for the big one...also, ur "reserves" take days to build back up

a week before a race, simply run 1 hard day..and the rest do easy-steady long runs...but dont run too much 2 days before the race...and make sure u get lots of sleep the 2 days before a race...trust me on this

yeah buddy, take it a bit easy some of those days.. you dont need to run "hard" every day to get benefit, in fact if you do that by the time you race, you will have nothing left

Well I don't run hard every day I usally run hard 3 days a week. Like sunday, monday, and wednessday. Tuesday, thursday are easy miles of 5 to 8 at around 6:40 to 7:** with a heart rate of 155 to 165 hpm my max heart rate is 206. And on friday it's a 15 minute run around the school.

A few tips- take easy runs easier. Maybe take a day off every once in a while(if you don't already). And the most important- QUIT STRESSING. Running is supposed to be fun. A lot of the things that happen to you on race day sound like they happen because you are worrying too much about the race. Go into the race confident in your training(you know how well you have trained, so you know about how well you should race), relaxed on the starting line and with a very good idea of exactly how you are going to run the race. Visualize also a few days before how the race is going to go. Just relax. Nobody should tighten up like that during a race. It sounds to me like you are just psyching yourself out.

What type of base training do you have that will allow you to run three hard workouts per week?

In my opinion, you sound like someone who is capable of running sub-17:00 easily in a race, but using all your reserves during training. Typical high school program. You are burnt. If you are running 5-8 milers in 6:40-7:** miles and these are your easy runs...maybe go longer at the same pace on your harder days rather than working on speed.

What is your warm-up like? With your endurance, you may try adding a little(around 5min) tempo before your race. This could help to make the race feel more like your training runs. Just make sure your recovered by the time the gun goes off.

Funny about the Freshman comment. To many of us older fellows, there is no way we could tell the difference between a 15 and a 16 year old. I know you want everyone to be able to recognize that you aren't a freshman, but we don't. You might have to get used to it. I looked about 14 when I was 22 and a senior in college, and the age/weight guy at the fair told me so. I won a big stuffed bunny.

Ease up on those training runs as everyone else said.

1-maybe you're doin your workouts too hard. You're workouts should not be as hard as races

2-maybe you are putting too much pressure on yourself in the races. I used to do this too. What I did was I decided that it really didn't matter what happens in the race. As long as I run as fast as I can then I'll be happy. It doesn't matter if it's slow, as long as the effort is good. Sometimes you'll just be tired, and it'll suck and you'll run slow, that's alright. Also make sure you're well hydrated, and that you don't eat within 3 hours of your race. That might help your cramps. YOu'll have to experiment a bit to find out what works for you. Good luck

Brandon

Im not putting you down, but I see many young and competitivly in-experienced athletes do the same. The ALWAYS train well, but then run crap and wonder why. But Im sure I know why. I think the key is to take race day as you would a normal day - and I know - cause I have roomed with Nico Motchebon (4th OG and 1min43.83 - not to mention a MILLIONAIRE from athletics) at many races, and seen what he does too - in fact many top athletes. Think about what you do on training days - you always have training in the back of your mind - but do you really sacrafice lots of things because of it? - I dont. If I am hungry 1 hour before training - I will eat. Granted - its not crap food - maybe a plain bread roll - but I still eat - I will do stuff during the day - play golf if I wanna - play playstation - hell, some days I have to work where I am on my feet for 6 hours. Same with most young athletes - and more importantly the mind is OFF athletics. THEN - they come to race day. things change. All of a sudden they start doing what they THINK is best for them - ie. NOT eating - wrapping up in cotton wool. This is bollocks! First of all lets address food. If you want to race well - you gotta eat LOTS of food on race day. I ran at Zurich this year, and the food was amazing at the Intercontinental - and the athletes take advantage of it. I walked in about 3 oclock to get a bread roll for snack, and El G was having his lunch (remember he was racing at 9) His plate was FREAKIN LOADED! he must only weigh 60 kilos - but he was eating at least 20! (not quite - but you get my point) same with the 800m guys - all of them. Dont worry about digestion - I would have a mega-meal about 6 hours before a race, and top up all the way through to 2 hours before. You need food - food is ENERGY. Next - excercise. Its all about metabolism. I learnt this the hard way - but now I have a formula that is good for me and you should too. Ask yourself this - How many times have you gone for 4-5 steady miles in the morning - or even a faster session - and come back for a session at night, and run superbly - really just smoke - even without much of a warmup? I do it all the time. So I thought - why should I stop doing this on race day? - the answer is I shouldnt. I suggest you try this next race. About 7-8 hours before the race - go out for a 3-4mile run - quite fast. Stop, do some stretches - some FAST stride outs - almost to the point where your legs feel a little fatigued - (top guys did this at Zurich too) Then, thats it. Your metabolism is going, youre not stale. Go back, relax - have the afforementioned monster feed, and relax - play playstation - but if you need to do something - like go to the shops - shoot some hoops - then do it - keep the legs going all day. The critical period is 2-3 hours before the race - thats when you should be inactive - just light stretches (very light) when you feel like some muscular feedback. Dont muck around with carbohydrate only foods too. Naturally carbohydrates are important - but not enough protein - even on race day - and youll have a critical hormonal imbalance. This is maybe even more important the night before. Dont eat a plate of pasta, and a glass of water. Have pasta - but also have some chicken - or a steak - or some fish. You also said you go for a jog the day before - but what about the day before that? My advice, before a critical - or target race - DO NOTHING - no running - no stress whatsoever. Last hard session 3 days prior - then rest - then some easy miles (as you have been doing) the day before. Even sleep matters - its not the night before - but the 3-4 days prior. Dont try and go to sleep at 9 ocloc, if every night before for a week you have gone to bed at 10.30. You will just lie there, and think about the race - and even if you do get to sleep - you will wake up early, because your body is accustomed to a certain amount of sleep, and will only satisfy this need and nothing more. Nothing worse than a restless night before a race - or waking up, and feeling like you havent slept at all!

This is just my experience. From this, I have raced well - I have a real consistency, and I am at the stage where I just follow my formula, and I know - and am confident that I will perform to my best. And this is a huge weight off the shoulders. Its a great feeling when you know that everything is taken care of, and you just focus on the race - and not how you are going to feel in the race - its a big difference - believe me. Try some stuff out - take a look at patterns from your tarining and apply them to racing. I hope you go well in your next race.

hey fester? Who are you and/or what are your PRs? Your Race day routine sounds interesting. Think I might try it out.

Brandon - Im happy you want to try it out. I think it could work well for you. So heres a quick rundown - so you can actually understand - due to my jumbled up synopsis!

3 days prior to race - last hard session

2 days prior to race - COMPLETE REST

1 day prior to race - (for me - 800m runner - 25min easy run, for 5km runner - 35-40min - REAL easy)

RACE day. Lets say the race is at 5 oclock (if it is earlier you need to cut back the time frames - but it is important to have a routine)

So - race at 5 oclock...

Wake-up WHENEVER (dont set an alarm) - but this should be 9 oclock at the latest - your body should have been getting up at these times anyway.

Breakfast 9.30 - eat lots, drink lots.

Warmup 10.30-11.00 - 30min max. Start slow, and work up to a steady jog - maybe run the last 2min fairly steady just to get the feel of hard breathing - its important to get oxygen into you - into the head. I am an 800m runner - so my race is REALLY hard anaerobically. I like to get the feeling in my legs early - so I do numerous excercise that shunt blood into my leg and arm muscles. But be careful - I only get that fatigue feeling, and I stop immediatly. So I do some free squats - maybe a wall sit, some pressups etc. Its important to do the main bulk of your static stretches here. Static stretching before a race is pointless - if even tires out your individual muscle motor neurons. DO IT NOW. For a 5km runners up - Its breathing that is most important. Spend a minute sucking up some big ones, and holding it - then letting it out slow. Get the feel of what you are GOING to feel in the race - personally - you know what that is. If you have an isotonic sports drink - like Gatorade, or Isostar - drink it now. Get back home - or to your hotel room, have quick, cool shower - put some trackies on, and chill.

Lunch. 11.30

Eat what you want - eat lots, but slowly. I find what most the top guys eat and what I go best on, is plently of salad - bread, and a small helping of protein - like chcicken, or fish. Add some fruit - your done. Drink lots too (obvious one). Dont panic about digestion. This year I ran in a small but superfast meet in Rehlingen, Germany (1min45 800m, 3min37 1500m) The hotel was good - but the restaurant was a shocker - they didnt have a buffet like most Hotels, so we ordered and waited...and waited - and it was only 3 1/2 hours before the race! I finally got my food - and I was starving - and didnt finish until 3 hours before the race! But I was fine. The food only took 2 hours to digest - and I was left with the energy from a good lunch to run run REALLY well.

Up to race time.

Now do what you like. Shoot some hoops - play PS2 if you are home. If I am in a hotel in foreign place - I like to maybe have a walk in a park - just something to relax, and keep the blood going. Stretch VERY lightly just for muscle feedback. I also like to have a sleep if i can. Just 30-40 min can be great mid afternoon - and lots of the top guys do. Nico Motchebon is a great one for the afternoon sleep. It also lets your mind refresh as your not thinking about the race. I would nibble on stuff like bread, some dried fruits - maybe a performance bar - right up until 90 minutes before race time. There is NO problem here at all - its just myth about food and cramps - absolute crap.

Race time. Now your metabolism is going, the body has been accustomed to physical activity for the day, you are ready to fire.

Like i said earlier - this works well for me. I now know what i must do, in order to be firing when the gun goes off. I have confidence that I am 100% ready - and it gets me fired up, and really focussed when i know there are no excuses for not running well.

Try things Brandon - see what works for you.

As to who I am? Well certainly no-one famous thats for sure! I am 20 years old, and I do run the professional circuit in Europe - but I am really am right at the bottom of the ladder at the moment. Sure - I have run reasonably fast, and this has enabled me to run in meetings like Weltklasse Zurich etc - but I am no different to most young runners out there in that I did have the same anxiety before races, and have also had some failures. But I have been running top level for 3 years now - so I am fairly experienced - and thats how I have learnt a lot from just sitting back and watching the best runners on earth. What applies to them, applies to us! If you look at things with an open mind, and a more hollistic approach - you will see there is no secret to performing your best on race day.

Keep track of this thread. I would like to see how your next race goes. Go well.

Well since am still in high school we have 2 meets a week, and always on the meet in middle of the week I always do better. On saturday however I usally do not do so great (i can see this from my training log).

I like ur race day stratgey. But how can u make it fit a day when u run anywhere from 9:30 to 11:00 am. And u have to get up around 5:55am to go to the school to catch ur bus to take u to the meet?

OK - From my experience, When you are racing - very little training needs to be done. When I race in Europe - its usually every week - or once every 5 days. I can not train - even by choice, if I have to travel, and this is what saves me from doing anything stupid. So, if you run Wednesday - how about resting totally Thursday (make sure you warmdown PROPERLY after the meet Wednesday) and then jog a little Friday. But how often do you try this (racing twice in a week) I would only do something like this is June - at the beginning of the season - like doubling up an 800m - with a 1500m 3 days later. But when i was really gunning for a PR - theres no way i would attempt that - and I think it should apply whatever level you run at. Maybe look at by-passing a mid-week race, and saving it for the weekend.

I see your point about the timing. I guess its easy for me to talk about my planning when I race late afternoon and night. I suggest, then - that if you have to catch the bus at 5.55 - you will have to do the nasty and get up at 5, and just do something! Just some activity - some jumps - a 10minute blat round the block - something. Stretch - have some breakfast, and then chill on the bus. racing in the morning IS hard, so dont worry about it. Ask yourself how many times you have seen El G run 3min30 at 11am - never - same for Kip. Just get some blood going - even a hot, then cold shower for blood motion is good.

Pick and choose your races for achieving excellence. race yourself into form. And when you get there, take it easy.

My response assumes that you're racing cross country. From your post, you don't do any training at a pace faster than "race pace"--no strides, no speed work, no hill charges etc. Considering that the start of most cross country races is a mad-dash for position, I would say that your training doesn't prepare you for that initial sprint and your race suffers because of it.

Try the following:

Before EVERY workout do 8-10 100m strides(not sprints). You should feel fast and relaxed.

On your hard day (Monday?) do some faster running. You can, for example, run 3x1 mile at 5:20 to 5:30 pace.

Also, my opinion is that you should do the workout hard enough that you NEED recovery the next day. When I ran in HS and college, there were people on my team who would do the hard workout not-so-hard and then run fast on the recovery days. They would "win" the recovery days, but I'd kick their butts during the race.

Of course all my opinion. Try any of this at your own risk.

A few points:

First, you gotta believe when you step to the line, dont think your gonna race well cause your rested or did the right warm up or whatever, believe you are gonna run well cause you are one fit SOB and that you just want it more than anyone else.

Second: I am a middle distance man myself, but I know some pretty good 10k guys that go longer the day before a meet, they actually run like shit if they dont get in at least 45-60 minutes. Maybe for you an easy 35 min run with strides might help.

Third: FInd a routine you are comfortable with. You dont have to be religious(cause if that happens you may start thinkgin "oh no, I missed this, i'm gonna run like shit"

Finally, you just gotta believe in yourself on race day, find a racing pattern you are comfortable with and just go! I personally like to hold back and hold back to the last mile, then just put it all the way down. Keep yourself in position the first few miles, but save somethin the last mile, it gives a huge psychological advantage when your screaming by people the last mile.

Good Luck

"Trials of Miles"

How accurate were the courses (both training AND the race) ?? No, you don't have to get out there with a ruler, but if a "7-miler" is really 6.3 or something, then you're only fooling yourself. Was this X-C ?? Some courses are just tougher than others.

And, don't beat yourself up over one or two bad races anyway, even if they were accurate. Enjoy yourself, and have fun.

If you DO get a chance to go play golf, do it !!!

The last four replys have gave me some good ideas.

But first let me say some things.

1. yes I am running XC

2. yes all my training run's are messarued

3. I have been having this bad race syndrome all season so far except once. But that course was all flat except for this killer straight up hill that lasted about 200 metters and there was no compition. Like only 36 runners I came in second to my team mate.

4. There is no more 2 aweek meets for rest of the year

5. I noticed when I do not go out hard like my coach always wants us to I always have a lot better race.

6. My last mile is usally my best. That is usally of course when am haveing a good day.

Ok now for some questions.

We have 3 meets left Oct 17, 24 and Nov. 2(this is the state meet). I have done no speed work yet this season. What would be some good speed work things I could do to help me Kick some @$$ rest of the season?

Well since XC is nearing the end and I will strat my Track training. After Foot Locker of course. What are some good tips on that? I run the 1 and 2 mile and every once in a while the 800. What a rush!!!

And as SAM sad, "I am one fit SOB."

Your description of yourself and how you feel is so common it threatens to become a cliché. Young dude, can run 2.05 and 4.20 for 800m and 1500m and then runs only 17.45 for 5k and cannot break 37.00 for 10k. (The times might not be yours, but the drop-off in performance as the distance increases will be pretty similar)

In a nutshell (I am trying to cut down the long posts I usually wind up doing), you are not well trained aerobically. You are training too fast and too hard/too often. (others above tell you the same thing).

Aerobic training does not work like that. You can SEEM to get away with faster-paced training if you are only running middle distance, but a race over 5k or longer will find you out.

Find a good distance coach nearby you can work with and do as he says. You need to add more easy running and more LT work and cut back on all the harder stuff.

Aerobically well-trained runners can start out fast and not be unduly troubled by lactate build-up. More ?interval-trained? runners (to use a Lydiard distinction) cannot do that, as they find (like you) that they get heavy-legged wayyyy too easy.

You can appear to run better by starting more slowly and pushing the second half (as you have noticed), but you will not catch those who are well-trained who can go out strong and keep up the pace, although you might catch those who train like you do.

Note that good aerobic training will filter all the way down and improve your 800 and 1500m PR's, so don't think this is just a distance/X-C thing.

before commenting,

1.are you sure the distances are correct?

2.it might be more or less.

karangasem.